Topic

Questions About New Housing and Group Halls -- NOW WITH STOOT ANSWERS!

UPDATE:  Scarlett Bearsdale has provided a summary of questions and answers here
Thanks Scarlett!

**  ORIGINAL POST  FOLLOWS *****************************************

I have many questions in my mind about the new housing and group halls that will be coming to Glitch. I am going to post some of them here. Maybe others have questions they would like to post.
HOUSING QUESTIONS

1. Once the new housing is introduced, what steps will current users need to take to acquire a house and what steps will new users need to take to acquire a house?

2. Will a new house consist of a template that can be extended and added to?  If so, will there be one template that everyone starts with, or will there be different starting templates to choose from?

3. Will houses have an exterior that is visible from public space such that any player could pass by, see the house, drop something in front of it, or knock on the door if they wish?  If so, will there be ways to customize this exterior to make something that is visually unique?

4. Will there be spaces with clusters of houses similar to the current housing quarters?  If so, will there be public access to these spaces such that any player can come into them and wander around? 

5. Will the new houses have a permission system that is more flexible and layered than the current permission system which allows anyone who has access to a house to take almost everything that's not locked into a cabinet?

GROUP HALL QUESTIONS

1. Will a group hall look like and function like (a) a building, (b) an outdoor street or streets, (c) an outdoor street or streets with one or more buildings, or (d) any of these a group wants?

2. Will group halls be available only to formal groups or can a collection of players get together and create a "group hall" without also creating a formal group?

3. Will group halls be considered to be owned by their associated group (however such groups are defined), owned by a subset of the group, owned by the entire community, or what?

4. Will group halls be accessible only to those who are members of their associated group, or will there be a more flexible permission system (e.g. public, public w/ blocklist, permanent guest list, limited-time invitation, etc.)?
--------------------------------------------------------

Maybe TS will answer some of these questions, maybe not.  Either way, I'm interested to know what others want to know :)

UPDATE:  See below for some answers from stoot :)

Posted 3 years ago by Splendora Subscriber! | Permalink

Replies

  • "Glitch won't achieve Minecraft-esque modularity, but we are planning on adding tools for players to create some things (picture/story book items, art for house walls, music making and level creation are the leading candidates)."

    This is awesome! I hope that we will be able to sell/trade/share such user-made items.
    Posted 3 years ago by Fluxan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I really, really like Zauberberg's take on home anchors and a KoL-like economy. Just wanted to second them!
    Posted 3 years ago by MX Ghostie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have sat here reading everyone's questions, so many things we all want to know. I had decided not to add to the long post.......but I changed my mind after someone said this "  thank you for taking the time and talking to all these Glitches about new stuff when you didn't even have to really reveal any of this. "

    I thank Stoot for answering alot of questions. But we are all playing this game & nothing is wrong with wanting to know what the heck is going on! I am sure Stoot is a busy man and has all kind of things to do as far as developing the game, but to downplay people needing some kind of answers or reassurance is just wrong! Another option would be to post something with general questions & answers about such things as housing, currants and moving as it is obvious people were gonna worry about that. So to say Oh thank you for answering things for people when you didn't have to , is just wrong to me. Talk for yourself. But w.e........So yes thank you to Stoot and thank you to my fellow glitchen for asking questions so I am more enlightened. 
    Posted 3 years ago by Queen Zipporah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fluxan I missed that quote so thanks for repeating it! That's super awesome!!
    Posted 3 years ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @serenitycat -- good point and nicely said.
    Posted 3 years ago by Sir Mixalatte Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm so excited for all the changes! The game has been amazing so far that to me, any big change TS comes up with can be nothing but awesome.
    We are so lucky to have a CEO like stoot. He's so connected to the players. Like Rook (it was Rook right) said, when was the last time you talked to Google's CEO? Or Zynga's? Any CEO? Stoot is awesome.
    Posted 3 years ago by Fernstream Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Will we be able to give away/trade imagination as we do currants?
    Posted 3 years ago by Mocha Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Mocha As I understand it, we will still have currants (but there will be a conversation process from old currantcy to new). Instead of XP we will have "imagination." But we won't "level." We'll expend imagination to imagine things like housing improvements.
    Posted 3 years ago by Fluxan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have been musing on the XP to Imagination stuff and made a thread about it in the Ideas forum.
    Posted 3 years ago by Mal'akh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Fluxan

    That was my thinking, too, from all that I have read.

    I will compare it to other games, in case anyone is confused as to how that might work:

    You know how, in many games such as RPGs, you level up and then gets points that you can spend on skills/abilities (+1 strength, etc)? That is what I am seeing imagination as, except you do not have to wait to level up to use it, and it is for a different type of upgrade.

    Also, if I may put in an opinion on the Great Transition To Come?
    I think that the "curve" of transfer rates would be wonderful if it could allow new-ish (<20) players to make small upgrades to their homes. I think one of the best reference points would be at what level a majority of people can afford specific, pre-existing houses.
    If you can afford an apartment at level 7, then give them enough imagination to build a tiny garden and a tiny cabinet, if the average level of a first-time purchase of a 10k home is 15, give them about how much imagination it would take to replicate those (tree or two, medium garden, cabinet)
    And then for those who have noticeably high level, or currants, maybe give them the amount it would take to replicate a mansion, or possibly even a mansion plus something extra for those lucky level 60s. I definitely think they deserve a prize, but not one so big that they lose out on the experience of growing their home over time ;)
    Posted 3 years ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For people concerned about no vendors:

    It was also mentioned that such would happen after revamps to the market, so likely by the time that happens the current auction system would not exist.  I'm not stoot obviously, but I'm still pretty confident that I'm right.  

    Edit to add: basically I'm seeing your concern as imagining the current game minus the vendors, and I think you need to keep in mind that the current game is rapidly changing.  For one, he did mention leaning toward player-run vendors, so it would likely not interfere with your current play styles at all.  

    Best case scenario I can imagine off the top of my head: for an item you'd like to sell, you open a search menu and get a list of offers from player-run vendors, then you head to the market street where that vendor is located, and unload everything you need to on the vendors.  The player that owns the vendor will be able to stock it with currants to make such purchases, and set how many he or she is willing to buy before the vendor stops accepting the item.  There will likely be many vendors per street, so you can make a quick run to unload what you need to sell or buy what you need to buy.  

    I can't possibly imagine that it would make sense to rid us of the vendors with the current auction system.  

    Stoot: can you verify at least that previous line if nothing else?

    edit again to add: also, everyone, well at least the 10 or so on tonight, in a mining "club" I'm part of is really excited about that particular change and looking forward to monitoring our own vendors.  Kewl!
    Posted 3 years ago by Saucelah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Stoot, I was reading your replies. Somewhere you said it was good to hoard items. Does that mean the items we have in our inventory at the switch, will be "Transferred" into currants and/or imagination, therfore deleted from the inventory? The way I understand it is that they are swapped into the currency and removed, so it is like a bag/inventory reset when we switch? 
    ETA: Is it more beneficial to hoard and have say 500,000 cherries or sell the cherries for 500,000 currants? 

    Thanks, hope you answer this. 
    Posted 3 years ago by jjbob Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think he said there wouldn't be any more or less point to hoarding items, though I could be wrong.  

    But he definitely said everything we own will transfer to our new home automatically.  
    Posted 3 years ago by Saucelah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • One more question for the devs (it's an easy one). Are you taking inspiration from EVE Online? :D

    Real time skill learning, the streets and street signs being the same as systems and stargates, a player run economy with a huge focus on crafting, and some of the best character customization...
    Posted 3 years ago by Draron Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot said: "to get more space/land, you'll be spending imagination; to get more stuff on the land, you'll be doing discrete project-like work, crafting or trading with other players. Hoarding stuff now will not help you very much (in the long run, having a billion cherries will only be valuable if there is demand among for a billion cherries among the other players)."

    Your stuff will go with you to new housing automagically. It's just that there's no clear advantage to be had stockpiling stuff in advance of the changes. Unless, y'know, you're lucky enough to hoard stuff that everyone is going to want (but those high-demand things may not even be harvestable/craftable with the current game mechanics).
    Posted 3 years ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm not worried about my fake stuff and fake money. I haven't played an online game where I've laughed and shared so much with friends old and new. It's hard to 'imagine' that will not continue. 

    I also haven't quoted George Bernard Shaw in the Forums yet... 

    "Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything."
    Posted 3 years ago by Jesus Christ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 JC
    Posted 3 years ago by Mal'akh Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Gotta love a thread where you can +1 Jesus Christ!
    Posted 3 years ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • My friends and I are former FarmVille addicts.  Glitch has been a wonderfully refreshing change!  Stoot and the TS team did a super job of building this game from the ground up.  I like it now...I'm sure I'll like the changes that are coming.  

    I REALLY(!!!!!!!) appreciate hearing from Stoot...(I could never get anyone at Zynga/FarmVille  to answer any inquiries...about anything...EVER!!!

    p.s.   Live Help is WONDERFUL!!!  I really like questions answered and problems solved in real time...on the spot! 
    Posted 3 years ago by swampfox2222 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Now I'm laughing because it's becoming more and more obvious that the new Glitch game will need extra sociable skills of being pleasant to everyone and accumulating pleasant, helpful and cheerful friends who will be willing to trade and also support the group halls. Maybe that will be the best thing to hoard!
    Posted 3 years ago by Moz Art Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Here's my take on the no more vendors as we know it deal..... Stoot- lettuce know whats the go when it is decided... :D

     Vendors won't magically have items that they sell to you. They will only have items that have been sold TO them.

     Also,  the price of the item would depend on how many of the item that the vendor has (or you are trying to sell) AND how much of the product is currently being bought. So that, how much you get from selling 10 cherries (if everyone was buying lots of cherries lately) might be just as much as you currently get selling a fancy pick- and a fancy pick is only worth half a still.

    Well there is only one guaranteed way to find out how the new economy will work... STICK AROUND until it is released! And I can't wait.
    Posted 3 years ago by SlimeNose the Erst Subscriber! | Permalink
  • So... higher-level play... just housing modifications, or anything else in the works?  Sorry to be a nudge, but this is a key issue for a lot of us. 
    Posted 3 years ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • seriously "we" have been patient this long "we" can be patient a little longer but I am bored and some changes need to happen soon!!!  Yes I can go in game and hoard some more but I am bored with that now too..so "soon" needs to be changed to "sooner"
    Posted 3 years ago by Gable875 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • could someone possibly make a compilation of stoot-provided-information and summarize in the original post?

    i feel like he has now provided too much information and been too active (went from one extreme to the other) and now there is so much information floating around and thats hard to track in the thread

    FWIW i feel like the /major/ questions have been addressed. for the rest, lets just wait it out and see what happens. thats part of the discovery fun!
    Posted 3 years ago by Snowpuff Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I too really love Zauberberg's idea of anchoring homes to group halls, or at least having the option to. It's the flexibility of a home in the new system, but with a community attached of a Glitch's choosing! You have neighbors you might actually talk to and interact with, instead of housing blocks where people often meet simply in-passing. 

    Personally, I like the idea of the flexibility and customization of the new housing, but I would be sad to lose having a set location or a place I hail from. I love the idea of belonging somewhere in-game, something to associate with. 

    Also, just wanted to thank Stoot for taking the time to answer our questions. It helps a lot for us as users to feel like we know what's going on, even if what's going on is still kinda half-baked! I am really looking forward to seeing how the game changes for the better. I feel as if I've already got my subscription's worth of fun out of Glitch, so anything new will be something I consider another adventure. :D
    Posted 3 years ago by Laerwen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Brib Annie - "No vendors? Buy from other players? Say it ain't so! I have very rarely purchased from the Auctions because most items are way overpriced or at least priced much more than I want to pay. I sell to Vendors at a loss because I do not want to participate in the Auctions. The very few times I have sold at Auction, I sold for value or even a little less. Other auctioneers do not appreciate this and I understand. I only sold out of need not for huge profit. I auctioned the produce I needed to auction for a Quest and, if I remember right, I sold 2 or 3 other items when I had an urgent need for some currants. I really do not want to sell at Auction or at my own store. I am just not interested in operating a business or buying overpriced items from other players."

    Brib, this is EXACTLY how I feel. Somewhere in an old thread, I made a nearly identical post. I have not changed my mind. (Saucelah, please don't feel like you need to 'explain' it to me again. I have read everything. I just don't like it.)
    Posted 3 years ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I agree with Brib Annie as well; I have no interest in the auctions, or in any economic dealings with other players.  It's an easy way to lose friends.  On the other hand, there's currently very little which must be purchased, so I plan to acquire all of the skills as they appear, and make everything myself, as I always have; otherwise, there's really not much to do, is there?
    Posted 3 years ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Should I post the condensed version of the questions and answers here in this thread I created for my own sanity?  It seems there are some other people having difficulty with finding the info they want that has already been answered.

    I thought it was redundant to post it here, but ...
    Posted 3 years ago by Scarlett Bearsdale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • " ... maybe if enough of us speak out against it, they won't eliminate *all* the vendor buying...?/hopeful!"

    Actually I think that vendor buying and shrine donations underline a flaw in the glitch economy.   Shrines are the worst, imo.  It really is as if they set up all this productive capacity and then set out garbage cans to collect it all.  Shrine donations require every item in the game to be assigned a "list price", which completely distorts the economy.   Vendors buy at a % of "list price", providing price supports to all salable items.

    I believe TS wants to move beyond such a price supported economy and let prices find their natural clearing point, Adam Smith style.   They can't do this at the present time because supply vastly outstrips demand.   What's needed, and what I hope comes eventually, are more "upper market" features that give long-term glitchers the ability to move out of the "farm & mine" market segment and into a more consumer/quest-driven market segment.   Doing so would go a long way towards balancing the economy as a whole. 

    Put another way - if Glitch offered so many play options that you didn't have time to pursue them all, many people would/will choose to forgo some activities such as farming / cooking / mining, and instead buy those goods at auction.   The prices paid at auction include the time-labor of production, which is worth money both to the producer AND to the buyer.   We do this all the time in the real world - it is "worth it" to not have to take the time do it yourself, whatever it is.  

    Good luck Stoot, we're all pulling for you. 

    ETA, now that I'm pondering it, perhaps my new dwelling won't include a pen or garden plots, at least not right away.  
    Posted 3 years ago by WalruZ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • stoot sed "we are planning on adding tools for players to create some things (picture/story book items, art for house walls, music making and level creation are the leading candidates)."

    The Glitch devs already provide a fun and beautifully designed game world and I'm excited to immerse myself in this (still hypothetical) new world where we the players can begin to add the results of our own imaginations.I can't wait (ok I can but I'd rather not wait) to open a Music Block shop - and to start visiting all the other player run shops/vendors to check out all the cool art/books/pictures/tunes that I know this creative community is going to produce.
    Posted 3 years ago by The Cat Face Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Ok.   Then I won't explain again.  But you're both making the mistake gamers commonly make, one I dedicated a recent blog post to -- you are projecting that mechanic into the game as you currently understand it even though that mechanic will not go into the game as you currently understand it.  The assumption of "overpriced" is absurd -- that's not how markets work.   

    And you are playing a social MMO that has had these plans since before the first launch.  And I was able to find that information easily and chose to subscribe based on that information.  They will lose me and many others if they don't keep their promises, and I'd even have a better argument than you for demanding a refund, given that they have stated they would go that direction since October.   

    Now if you were a designer, which would you choose?  To create a "single player" economy that pulls items out of the game and cannot claim to be any more innovative than farmville, and lose players; or to create a living economy where prices fluctuate based on actual supply and demand with innovative player-run marketing and player-run vendors, and lose players?  Knowing you're going to lose some players either way, which would you rather have on your resumé?

    This is why we can't have nice things in the MMO genre -- players that don't actually want to play an MMO want the game to cater to them anyway.  I wouldn't exactly recommend farmville, but http://www.silvergames.com/mega-miner is a good single player sell to a vendor experience that runs on flash.  
    Posted 3 years ago by Saucelah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Scarlett:  

    I was thinking of doing that for my blog (and pasting it here so I didn't seem like a blog hit whore), but if you've already done it, I'd appreciate the copy pasta.  Would save me some work.  
    Posted 3 years ago by Saucelah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Look, if you feel the need to make this a "you're right and I'm wrong" conversation, that's fine. You can feel that I'm wrong all you want. It doesn't affect me. Nor does it change my OPINION. Rather than explain myself yet again, I am bowing out. Peace.
    Posted 3 years ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It sounds as thought this new Glitch will be far more customizable and flexible than the previous Glitch. This will be ground breaking if it were to be the case. Such a limit on current games out there is the lack of  customizable things and the lack of originality. Glitch was original anyway, but did have some things stuck in the past. The two main things I felt were too rigid were the housing system and the markets. If TS makes both of those systems more flexible and customizable, it would be on to something truly original and creative.
    Posted 3 years ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • If you've bowed out, you've bowed out.  But I do think it's a right & wrong conversation.  You're demanding the game not advance in a way that the game has claimed it will advance since the beginning.  You could have done the same research as me -- it wasn't difficult and only required an internet connection.  You've made a mistake in deciding that this is your game no matter what, but instead of accepting that mistake, you're demanding that the company change its entire long-term plan to suit you and a handful of other players who failed to use google before spending money.  Which in turn would cause me and a handful of other players to not get what we expected, and our expectation was valid and supported by words from Stoot going back to at least October.  

    That affects me, many of my friends, and our wallets.  And I think it would negatively impact Tiny Speck more to begin crowd sourcing design rather than sticking with the plan.  We aren't demanding we be catered to -- we went and found a game that planned to cater to us.  
    Posted 3 years ago by Saucelah Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The briefing from the thread so far (consolidated for my sanity and yours.)  Disclaimer: I have changed the order in which the questions originally appeared so I could link questions that lead from other answers together.  I have also slightly modified questions or supplied them when necessary - indicated using square brackets [ ].

    Q: Once the new housing is introduced, what steps will current users need to take to acquire a house and what steps will new users need to take to acquire a house?
    A: Existing users will go through a tutorial/explain-y transition process to move from their old to new houses the first time they log in after we make the switch. You will get some form or "credit" for the price of your old house, translated into the new system. New users will get a starter house as part of the initial tutorial.

    Q: Please tell me we'll get a warning *before* the house is swept out from under us!
    A: You don't need to worry about moving your stuff — that will all be automatic.

    Q: Does this mean it will not be possible anymore to play homelessly?
    A: You will not able to able to play house-less (just like you are not currently able to play inventory-less or leg-less or energy-less) but since the house is inside your own mind you'd have to twist yourself into an impossible-to-sustain conceptual pretzel to get to  "landlocked peasants" who are "more materialist" because of being "permanently assigned" to "a chunk of real estate".

    Q: Will the new houses have a permission system that is more flexible and layered than the current permission system which allows anyone who has access to a house to take almost everything that's not locked into a cabinet?
    A: No. That may happen in the future, house keys are not related to what we're working on now.
     
    Q: Will a new house consist of a template that can be extended and added to?  If so, will there be one template that everyone starts with, or will there be different starting templates to choose from?
    A: New houses will start with a basic template, common to everyone. But everyone can extend and upgrade it in their own way.

    Q: Will crop gardens and herb gardens be able to co-exist in the same house?
    A: You will be able to build more than one type of garden on your property (they don't come with any; you can "imagine" more land and then build many, many gardens).

    Q: Will there be any sort of 'ceiling' on the new housing - will there be maximums on how much land you can have, patches you can make, plots you can add, levels you can build?
    A: There will probably be some eventual limit. But, it will get geometrically more expensive to imagine more land so any hard limit will more theoretical than not.

    Q: Also, as for extending and upgrading houses, will this be by donating resources similar to old [street] projects, or by spending the mysterious 'imagination' stuffs (whatever that is)? In other words, is hoarding resources now, in anticipation of future value with respect to housing expansions, a complete waste of time, or will it be beneficial?
    A: In general: to get more space/land, you'll be spending imagination; to get more stuff on the land, you'll be doing discrete project-like work, crafting or trading with other players. Hoarding stuff now will not help you very much (in the long run, having a billion cherries will only be valuable if there is demand among for a billion cherries among the other players).

    Q: If items for our new houses will be craftable, why isn't it beneficial to hoard building materials?  Should we liquidate our assets instead?
    A: Hoarding Stuff in Anticipation of it Giving You Some Advantage in the Future
    It will probably help you a bit to have 1,000,000,000 cherries at the time we cut over, but I would not sacrifice life's pleasures to spend all my time getting incrementally more cherries right now in hopes that that might get me further "ahead" in the game after all these things switch.

    It is just too complicated to know what the relative values of things will be (as above, some pretty major economic changes are coming and a complete overhaul of the crafting system will come shortly after, the introduction of imagination will change many dynamics and on and on and on …) to unambiguously say "we encourage you to obsessively hoard any item you can in the game".

    In fact, now, as always, I'd say: if you enjoy doing it for its own sake, it is worth doing. On the other hand, if you are stressed that you might not have "enough" allspice or dullite or butterfly milk then you probably have far more than you could possibly ever need and should do something else instead :)

    Q: I have my lovely new house all built up and shiny. 6 months later i'm bored with how it looks. Can I sell/refund/take apart items then "Re Build" it again but choosing other options?
    A: Yes and no: you won't be able to sell it (you are the only possible owner) and I don't know think we'll have a single "reset" button which lets you start over from scratch, BUT you can change any part at any time (we imagine it being more of an evolutionary process for most players) and it is likely that transitioning to other layouts (e.g., from the meadow style of house and yard side-by-side to the cave style of yard-above-house) will cause more dramatic "reset-like" changes.

    Q: What sort of architectural variety might be available? will I still be able to imagine myself as the Witch of Maybe Marsh living in a gourd house in the firebog? (ie, will we have the option to imagine our houses similar to where we live now or are they going to be radically different?)
    A: It seems like there are two totally different questions here: (a) There will be a lot of architectural variety available (more than there is currently). (b) The new houses will not be in the normal world so they can't physically close to particular locations in the world (but they also can't be far either :)

    Q: Will houses have an exterior that is visible from public space such that any player could pass by, see the house, drop something in front of it, or knock on the door if they wish?  If so, will there be ways to customize this exterior to make something that is visually unique?
    A: Yes. And Yes.

    Q: Will there be spaces with clusters of houses similar to the current housing quarters?  If so, will there be public access to these spaces such that any player can come into them and wander around?
    A: No.

    Q: How will the lack of neighborhoods thing work? (how will people be able to find your house? will random passers-by still be possible? what will happen to animals that live on a housing block?)
    A: We are still arguing about this. At the very least, you will be able summon friends to your street, and once there, they will be able to follow links you've added to your signpost to the public streets of other players where they'll be able to follow links those people have added to the public streets of yet other players, and so on. So, random passers-by will be possible.

    Q: [But I lobe my neighbourhood!!]
    A: Neighborhoods
    The existing ones function (barely) as neighborhoods in the best cases, but would be doomed in the long run without rent or property taxes, etc., because of the inevitability of player turn-over.

    I have high hopes for the new system's neighborhoods since the linkages will be dynamic and the map of the space will reflect the players relationships. Once we do group halls, doorways from the main group area to individual members houses would be fairly simple, so there can be multiple ways in the which an individual house can be grouped with others and multiple ways in which it can be found.

    Q: Makes me wonder if it's possible to "imagine" a door that connects your house directly to the Group Hall  
    A: Yeah, that's what I was trying to say :)

    Q: If the new houses are in our imaginations, how will they relate to the rest of Ur? will my front door always take me to the same place or will its destination be somewhat variable, à la Howl's moving castle?
    A: Most likely they will be variable.

    Q: Any chance y'all might see fit to release some more swamp houses during the wait or do we just need to be patient?
    A: I don't know :)

    Q: Anyway, Stoot, does declining to answer questions about group halls mean they are delayed until after housing, delayed indefinitely, or just no longer part of the plan?
    A: Group Halls will come after housing (and a few other things) and will make much more sense then.

    Q: I hope that when we launch again we will get the referendum votes extended for a year.
    A: The accrued votes will still work regardless of your subscription status at the time you go to use them. We are planning to have the first votes (likely on new animals) in the next few months.

    Q: About how long until the next big change?
    A: About 8 weeks.

    Q: So... [that] higher-level play [I've heard you talk about before] ... just housing modifications, or anything else in the works?
    A: Many other things in the works.

    Q: Will currants stay in the game, or be replaced with something else?
    A: Currants
    There will still be currants for a very long time (probably forever) because having something to facilitate trade is very, very useful. However:

    • When imagination is introduced, there will be many things which can only be "bought" with imagination (mostly land & character upgrades) so currants will become somewhat less important overall.

    • The few remaining things which can only be bought from vendors (with currants) will be made craftable by players. Later, vendors will at first stop buying things they don't "need" and vendor buy prices will become variable. Finally, game-run vendors (generally) won't buy stuff at all. (Our long term goal is to completely eliminate game-run vendors, though player-run vendors would be ace.)

    Q: Will there be any role for player-generated content?
    A: Someday, we hope, there will be tools to allow player-created designs for furniture or clothing to make it into the game. You would be unwise to expect this before 2013 though (and you would also do well to adopt a stoic attitude towards it ever showing up: it's not an issue of whether we feel like it's a good idea … just how complicated it would be).

    However, I don't think using someone else's blocks necessarily means you are a passive consumer … it totally depends on the granularity: people do some amazing stuff with extremely limited palettes in Minecraft or with Lego.

    Glitch won't achieve Minecraft-esque modularity, but we are planning on adding tools for players to create some things (picture/story book items, art for house walls, music making and level creation are the leading candidates).   

    Q: How will things like gems and musicblocks work in an entirely player run economy? I get these things constantly in the course of my normal planting/harvesting activities, and currently sell them to retain space in my bags (I have collected a full musicblock set for fun), but without being able to sell them to vendors surely they will become worthless?   
    A: Good question! Some of them will have new uses, some of them will be useless (but less frequent) and some might be removed altogether.   

    Q: [Can we go back to imagination and xp and currant conversion, for a sec?]
    A: Converting to Imagination
    The amount of Imagination that existing players start with will be a factor of their Currants and their Level at the time of conversion. Some portion of your Currant balance will be taken away and replaced with Imagination (you may be able to convert from one to another after, with a large amount of friction). Then you'll get an amount of Imagination which is based on your Level.

    However, we will be converting on a curve: being a higher level or having more currants now will mean you start with more imagination, but the differences will be reduced. An example might help explain it:

    Imagine three players before the conversion: Fred, who is level 10 with 1,000 currants; Mary, who is level 30 with 50,000 currants and Sally, who is level 60 with 1,000,000 currants. In the example, Mary has 50x the currants that Fred has, while Sally has 20x more currants than Mary and 1,000x more currants than Fred (the differences in levels seem less, but because each successive level requires more XP, the ratios between their levels are actually similar to the ratios between their currant balances).

    After the conversion,  rather than 1 : 50 : 1,000, the differences between them might be more like 1 : 10 : 100 or even 1 : 5 : 10 (it depends on the curve and we have a lot more math to do before we'll decide that). Bottom line: if you are ahead now, you will be ahead afterwards, but not as far ahead.

    Q: Under the new system I will lose 90% of my XP and 90% of my currants?
    A: No; you will lose 100% of your XP (we won't have XP in the game any more) and some of your currants will be converted to Imagination (the exact amount has not yet been decided).

    Q: [But,] the conversion ratios will result in them losing 90% of their relative wealth?!?!
    A: Well, the answer is still "no" because (a) the two systems are not isomorphic and (b) we don't know what the curve will be yet (there's an enormous amount of balancing to be done with the pricing of upgrades, land, etc.)

    from this thread: Q: [Some people are saying based on interviews they've read with you, that we'll have to buy back our enlarged energy and mood pools using Imagination after the update. This doesn't seem fair to me.]
    A: I hope many people read Splendora's explanation :) 

    Existing players are not going to be "penalized" at all: the new system is just going to be different than the current one. Everyone is free to speculate and choose their own course of action but I recommend not bothering trying to strategize too much on how to gain the biggest advantage post-Imagination because (a) we're going to do our best to account for everything and set each player up as close and possible to where they would be if the game had always worked in the way it will work after we switch, (b) even if there was some specific maximizing strategy (e.g., you'd be "better off" to sell all your stuff and save currants or donate everything to max XP or try to hoard as many materials as  possible, etc.) we wouldn't tell you and if you guessed the wrong one, you'd be worse off. So, the best idea is to do the things you enjoy :)

    Also, since it has a come up a few times, I should note: there WILL still be levels in the new system, but the importance of levels is going to be de-emphasized in the UI/profile pages, etc. You can think of them as a lifetime measure of imagination earned (as they are now a lifetime measure of XP earned). 

    Q:  Please dramatically lower the relative value of shrine donations as a way to generate xp/imagination.[Also,] please re-evaluate the xp/imagination values of various recipe completions - I know I've flogged this horse before but the problem certain recipes (rice/beans/whatever) gave too much xp/imagination is not really solved by a daily cap - it just makes us maximizers feel like we are *supposed* to be hitting the daily cap every day.   
    A: Those are good points — thanks! We are working through the ramifications of a few different ways of modifying XP/imagination from recipe-making and shrine donations even now.

    Q: [But I'm still worried about these economic changes!]
    A: For anyone worried about economic changes: (1) this is a longer term project which effects many parts of the game — not just vendors or auctions but the crafting system, resource types/distribution, and many new features (like player-controlled vendors, marketplace locations, etc.); and (2) we're going to be changing things in small incremental steps with extensive testing over a long period of time (as we have been for the last nine months or so, with changes to pricing, balance, vendor availability). There will be plenty of latitude for tweaking and adjusting as necessary.

    It's important to understand that it's a holistic change, not just flipping a switch to get rid of all vendors completely. Saucelah said something important earlier: "you are projecting that mechanic into the game as you currently understand it even though that mechanic will not go into the game as you currently understand it". Most of the "objections" in this thread are based on things that we have no intention of doing (in fact, they are things we've never even considered, like forcing players to barter). So before you go creating and signing petitions, consider that what you're imagining in your head is very likely not what will be happening anyway: voila!

    Q: Would be possible to buy the "imagination" by credits as well? (i.e. for some items or land.)
    A: No — you get imagination from the same things which currently give you XP (actions in the world, quest rewards, etc.) It is not something you buy with cash.

    Q: If I find that I DO NOT LIKE the "new" version of Glitch, will I be able to get a refund at that time?  
    Q: I second the refund question-I also have an annual subscription, but I'm really sceptical about the changes in economy (there's a reason I don't do any Farmville type of "game") and housing.
    A: I'm having trouble coming up with a way to draw a parallel between what we're talking about and Farmville: in Farmville, you don't interact with other players at all, the entire economy is run by the "game" (as opposed to other players) and you continually need to either pester other people or pay cash to advance further. Glitch has none of those elements and we're not proposing to add any. Can you explain the similarity you see?

    As for refunds, if we intended to make it so that you could get a refund at any time we would have said that, rather than announcing a specific period and a deadline. I think the policy of "refunds for any reason, even if you've already spent your credits, only taking away the last stipend no matter how long you've had a subscription, no strings attached and no hidden tricks" announced with over a month of warning, sent out by email, and posted in multiple places on the site was as generous as we can reasonably be (refunds cost us a lot: I don't just mean the foregone revenue, but the fees and the cost of staff to do verification and processing).

    Q: This sure sounds to me like I will be forced to buy/trade/sell with other players in order to "advance further."  I [really] hope I'm wrong.  [My question] was, if this becomes a completely new game (which, it appears that it might) and [I don't like] the game that it becomes, can I at that time get a refund?  I saw the "month of warning" etc. and asked the question long before the time was up [but didn't get a direct answer at the time I asked it during the warning period.]
    A: I'm not sure what to say. [...] If we were going to offer refunds forever, we would have said that instead of saying "until Dec 31st".
    It's a like a sign on a store that says they are open till 9pm … theoretically, that could be true and they are also open till 10pm and 11pm and midnight … but it is much more reasonable to infer that they will be closed after 9pm.

    As for not getting an answer: not everything posted in the forums will get an answer. More than 99% of tickets submitted through the help system do get resolved though, so if you need an answer, that is the way to go. (Not sure, what you meant by "email", but there was nothing submitted via the help system.)

    As for "the customer is always wrong" or "Bait and Switch" … we'll just have to disagree. I stand by the way we handled it. We gave months of advanced warning that big changes were coming, we gave everyone the opportunity to get a refund if they were worried about that … and in any case it's free to play the game, so anyone could get a refund and then resubscribe again later, playing the whole time.

    Finally, we're making these changes because we think they will make the game much better, deeper and much more fun. I'd be surprised if there were more than a handful of people who like Glitch now who do not like it much more six months from now.

    Having said all that, I'd gladly give you a refund today. Just create a help ticket and say "stoot sent me". (However, I mean "today" specifically — not three months from now.)

    Last, on Farmville and "This sure sounds to me like I will be forced to buy/trade/sell with other players in order to "advance further."  I REALLY hope I'm wrong." Well, if you mean anything like Farmville, then yes you're wrong. But if you just meant you'd have to at least indirectly interact with other players (e.g., buying their auction lots or harvesting a tree which someone else planted, etc.) then you're right, but that's not a change from what we have today (but, it is an MMO … Glitch will never be a good game for anyone who wants a completely solitary/solo experience).  
    Posted 3 years ago by Scarlett Bearsdale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Scarlett Bearsdale: Thank you so much! I was just about to scroll through 6 pgs to consolidate them for myself. You saved me a buncha work. :)
    Posted 3 years ago by Wynella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Sauce, I agree completely. I don't even fully understand why people who want to do everything alone are even here. Surely you knew this was an MMO, surely you knew it was a cooperative and social game, yet still people complain about player-based economies and skill learning penalties. It sounds to me like Harvest Moon would be more suited to these types of players.

    "And I think it would negatively impact Tiny Speck more to begin crowd sourcing design rather than sticking with the plan.  We aren't demanding we be catered to -- we went and found a game that planned to cater to us."

    That sums it up perfectly for me. And you should link us all to your blog :P
    Posted 3 years ago by Rev. Desdemona Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Scarlett -- Brilliant job! I was about to do the same thing (seeing misinformation and misinterpretation starting to spread), but you saved me the effort. Thanks!
    Posted 3 years ago by Pascale Subscriber! | Permalink
  • glum pudding: "So... higher-level play... just housing modifications, or anything else in the works?"

    Many other things in the works.
    Posted 3 years ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I should clarify, by this " I am extremely disappointed that we'll be forced to find actual player -buyers for our items if we want to sell them, or donate (?) to shrines to get some kind of return on otherwise useless items. " I meant, selling on the AH has been hard for me.  Only about 1/10th of everything I put up for sale ever actually sells, and I end up losing a ton in listing fees.  =/  I'd hate it if everything we wanted to get currants for we'd have to find buyers for (in the form of, someone buying our items, an actual player on the other end of the screen, yk?)... because I like crafting but hardly anyone wants to buy what I make even when I price it very cheaply.  It's just stuff people don't use a lot (like, Divine Crepes are super fun to craft and very pretty in my inventory but never sells on the AH at all).  People tend to go for high-energy foods like Awesome Stews (which I also make, but in much smaller quantities then I'd need to sustain my income needs) and sparkly which sometimes sells and sometimes does not.  I just like crafting and I like the returns I get in currants but if I stopped selling all the items I'd probably stop playing altogether eventually.  =/

    Anyways I have a few more questions.

    1.  Will we be able to build UP on our new property or just OUT - like left/right? Like can we have two and three (or more) story houses or just an ever expanding outward left/right property?

    2.  Will maps be accessible from our new housing and can we map-teleport out or will we be confined to leaving our homes first (a pain in the neck)?Sorry if these have already been asked & answered and I missed them!  I've tried to read every post but I might have missed a couple, this is a long thread. I didn't see it in Scarlett's compendium but again .. may have missed it... got up toooo early this morning.... >_<'
    Posted 3 years ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Miso George I also find it annoying how meals don't sell very easily on the auctions. In my experience, stuff that people can't get easily obtain sell easily (e.g. herbs). High end stuff that require a lot of skill and are pretty to look at sell easily (e.g. butterfly eggs).  Basic resources that people need in huge quantities but are fairly energy intensive to obtain sell easily (e.g. milk and meat).  Also, your housing questions are really good ones. It would be cool if we could expand our property in both dimensions!
    Posted 3 years ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Not just up, Miso. But hopefully down too. I'd like 47 levels of basement, it is the only way I can feel safe from rook attacks.
    Posted 3 years ago by Malus Agricola Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes, I did know this was an MMO and a social game. I have NEVER said that I don't want any social interaction. It's my favorite aspect of the game. We are all entitled to our opinions. Mine is that if I wanted to play a game based on economics, I would have looked for one. Thankfully, so far, Glitch is not. If that changes, I'm sure a lot of people will be evaluating whether or not it remains a game that they want to play.

    TS has done quite a bit of "crowd sourcing" lately. Just look at the herb gardens and the threads that led up to the changes. When I joined during the first beta, there was a note about opinions being wanted and valued. When I purchased my subscription, one of the benefits was to get "votes." " * Votes can be used in periodic referendums which will be held to decide which features and new content should get priority..." I don't deny anyone else has a right to hold opinions that differ from mine. But I do insist on my right to hold and express my own opinion.
    Posted 3 years ago by Audaria Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Well, you've certainly expressed your opinion several times - loud and clear!
    Posted 3 years ago by Anderella Subscriber! | Permalink
  • For anyone worried about economic changes: (1) this is a longer term project which effects many parts of the game — not just vendors or auctions but the crafting system, resource types/distribution, and many new features (like player-controlled vendors, marketplace locations, etc.); and (2) we're going to be changing things in small incremental steps with extensive testing over a long period of time (as we have been for the last nine months or so, with changes to pricing, balance, vendor availability). There will be plenty of latitude for tweaking and adjusting as necessary.

    It's important to understand that it's a holistic change, not just flipping a switch to get rid of all vendors completely. Saucelah said something important earlier: "you are projecting that mechanic into the game as you currently understand it even though that mechanic will not go into the game as you currently understand it". Most of the "objections" in this thread are based on things that we have no intention of doing (in fact, they are things we've never even considered, like forcing players to barter). So before you go creating and signing petitions, consider that what you're imagining in your head is very likely not what will be happening anyway: voila!
    Posted 3 years ago by stoot barfield Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Translation: The only items that will continue to hold value are those whose values are defined by external factors...?

    Quick! Everybody invest in Yetis, Pickles and Cubimals! *ducks*
    Posted 3 years ago by Aoi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • PHEW thanks Stoot for the clear and concise answers.  ^__^

    And Aoi lol!  Hey don't joke about that!! I'm only 3 cubis away from completing my collection! '>_>
    Posted 3 years ago by ♪♥~ Auren ~♥♪ Subscriber! | Permalink
  • First, THANK YOU to stoot for taking the time to clear things up, answer our questions, and soothe our worried little brains.  :)

    Secondly, I completely identify with those of you who prefer to play Glitch as a mostly solitary game.  While I do enjoy the social interaction present in some places in-game, those quests that require the help of people (digging peat, whatnot) tend to go unfinished in my quest log.

    What I would be happy to offer, though, is that anyone who would like to can friend me (and/or my main account - Zoethor2) and feel free to connect with me for any sort of "required" social interaction-based tasks in the future.  No obligations of chit chat or whatever, just do the thing, go our separate ways.  It'll be like the anti-social social experience.  :)
    Posted 3 years ago by Zoethor3 Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Will there be more trophies to fill my somewhat bare cabinet?... please - pleas....
    Posted 3 years ago by MzMunchken Subscriber! | Permalink