Topic
Wonder: After the Awakening - A New Glitch-Fic
I posted this in General, but I'm putting it here because maybe it makes more sense. I'm not sure, there seems to be a lot of crossover of the two forums.
I'll keep this first part brief because TL;DR
When I first realized you could write and drop notes in Glitch for other people to read I instantly knew that I wanted to start writing stories and songs and poems and all other manner of things to leave for random Glitchen to find. I wanted to be a world famous author... in Ur.
Well, four months later the game shut down and that never really happened. I, like all of you, was pretty distraught and was looking for an outlet. That's when I got the idea for this story. It's still a work in progress and it's become much longer than I thought it would be, but I'm having fun writing it and it's a good distraction from the fact that the game is no longer around.
Because of it's length and the fact that I don't know how long it will take to finish I've decided to start a blog where I can post it episodically. I set the blog up this morning with the prologue. I'm still tweaking some aspects of it so it's not 100% finished, but the beginning of the story is posted for all to enjoy. My goal at the moment is to post a new chapter every week. Hopefully that will give me plenty of time to get it written and revised.
If you're interested--and I hope you are--you can find it here:
Wonder: After the Awakening
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Now, I have what you might consider an unusual question but I'd like your opinions on it because you are an open-minded and considerate community. This story is about a single Glitchen and their assorted friends. Glitchen are inherently genderless--sex is determined by wardrobe, actions or a Glitchen's own admission--and I would like this story to be accessible in such a way that anyone reading it might put themselves in the main character's shoes. I considered using the indefinite pronoun "it," but that just reads weird and I don't like it. I've considered a few options such as posting two versions of each chapter, one where the main character is male, the other where she is female; using pronoun forms like (s)he, him/her; or alternating pronoun use after each chapter.
My question to you, oh fine community, is what do you think is the best option OR do you think it's even worth the bother?
If you're still not sure you want to click the link to the blog I have posted the prologue for you to read here as well. Then you can decide if it's worth your time.
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Legend tells of a whimsical land called Ur that was formed in a dream shared by eleven sleeping Giants. It was full of funny creatures called Glitchen who did all manner of ridiculous things. They mined and cooked, blended and petted, jumped and splanked, all in the name of fun and imagination. They played for a good long while and wanted to believe that their fun would never end.
But then one day the Giants began to wake up.
As we all know time passes much slower for the dreamee than it does for the dreamer, so as the Giants awoke it was not a sudden and shocking ending of the world; instead the Glitchen were aware of what was happening and they knew they didn’t have much time left.
The day the first trembles were felt was a day of great mourning. Some Glitchen were angry, some begged for more time and some denied that anything was happening at all. They reasoned that the world still existed, so what evidence was there that the Giants were waking up at all?
In the end no manner of bargaining or begging could change the fate of Ur, however. The Giants did stir from their sleep and on the last day there was a great celebration. It was a party to end all parties since technically it was the end of all parties. Glitchen shared food and drinks; danced in their favorite places and made whatever peace they could with a situation they could neither control nor fully understand.
On that last day the Giants spoke into the minds and hearts of all the Glitchen for the Giants loved their creations, but knew the Glitchen could not exist in a dream world without the dreamers. Some of the Giants offered words of kindness; some, words of regret; while other reminded the Glitchen to be strong and rejoice for the time they had been given. When the end approached there were many hugs, kisses and tearful goodbyes but everyone was anxious to know what would happen next. As the last Giant opened its eyes the entire world held its breath and then... it was all just gone.
But then something altogether unexpected happened. In the midst of the crying and praying, just as existence was blinking out for the inhabitants of Ur, somewhere in Groddle Forest a Glitchen sat up and opened its eyes for the first time.
Replies
- Not sure whether this would work, ... how about using the Glitchen's initials as a replacement for she/he/it?
- Or you could just about get away with using "a Glitchen sat up and opened their eyes...". But only just. And that is only one sentence. To get through a whole story without referring to the person by he/she is gonna be hard. Perhaps rather than have one protagonist you could have 2, that way making it easier to keep it gender free with the ability to use we, they or the Glitchen's names. Or better yet, after the prologue, start writing it as first-person narrative, that way "I" replaces most of the elements of writing where he/she is used.
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gende...
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I actually read pretty much that whole wiki page the other day. It's an interesting read. There just doesn't seem to be an easy way around it.
I think what I'll do is continue writing it as I have been, with the main character as a male, and make a note on the blog that it is intended to be read either way.
Maybe I'm just thinking too much about it. Anyway, I'll continue with the story and I hope people enjoy it. - Sie and hir are the gender neutral pronouns we use for folks who identify as genderfluid, genderless, or who don't feel the gender binary fits them well.
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I think what I'll do is continue writing it as I have been, with the main character as a male, and make a note on the blog that it is intended to be read either way.
Ursula Le Guin tried that in The Left Hand of Darkness; her aliens were supposed to be androgynes, but in the end the result was a novel filled with dudes. Dudes dudes dudes, as far as the eye could see, dudes that we're told are androgynous but who in the end are basically just dudes. The thudding repetition of the "he" pronoun, combined with a bunch of other really bad decisions -- like having her aliens turn "into" women but never "into" men, and calling all children "sons" rather than a more neutral word like "children" -- made it clear that even a brilliant writer like Le Guin couldn't rid herself of the assumption that people default to male and that females are some kind of special case.
(If you don't believe me, listen to yourself when you get cut off by a driver you can't see clearly. "Did you see that guy? Did you see what he did?" Or ask yourself what sex you assume an unknown animal is: "I saw a toad yesterday. He was as big as my fist!" A "tiger" can be any sex but a "tigress" can only be a girl; a "poet" can be any gender but a "poetess" has to be a lady; you can say "hey guys!" to any mixed group but addressing men with "hey ladies" might get you socked in the chin. Once you start looking for examples you won't be able to unsee it.)
I recommend that you Google the idea of "markedness" and think carefully about how that impacts your own relationship with men and women (and neithers!). The unfortunate fact is that in English in this time in history, it is impossible to claim that a masculine pronoun can somehow effortlessly refer to both males and females, much less anyone who doesn't fit neatly into those two categories. As a woman who had to go through years of university reading textbooks filled with sentences like "The student will open his reader to page 68, where he will find his exercise for the day," I can tell you that the masculine pronoun is not neutral, and no amount of wishing on your part will make it so.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Believe me, I know how tough it is to write gender-neutral text, and I don't want to be harsh. It's not your fault. But filling your story with "he"s and "him"s is, in my opinion, pretty much the very worst decision you can make if you want to make non-dudes in your audience feel included at all. -
Pale Queen, that is quite a response; more than what I was expecting for sure. I appreciate your passion for the topic and I thank you for sharing your point of view. Alienating readers is pretty much the opposite of what I want to do.
Let me first address the issue by saying I'm only currently writing the main character as a male because I am a male and so I'm writing it from my perspective. I don't mean to say I'm writing it from my perspective as a male; I'm writing it from my perspective as a logical and emotional person who also happens to be male. The main point is that gender never plays any sort of role in the story. Secondary characters all have definite gender assignments, but those are based solely on what I thought sounded better. Essentially any of the characters (except those created by Tiny Speck as Glitch canon) could have their genders swapped or eliminated without affecting the story.
With the main character I always intended the 'he's, 'him's and 'his's to either be place holders for something less definite, or at the very least I intended to post two versions of the story. I looked at different methods to side-step the gender specific pronouns before I started writing in earnest, but I couldn't find a resolution that I liked in terms of the flow of the story. A lot of suggestions I was given or ideas I had just turned the text into a kind of clunky mess. It became more about how to write with gender equality in mind and less a light-hearted adventure story. I don't want this story to be a statement by any means, I just want it to be entertaining as well as accessible. So, not wanting to put off writing while looking for a solution I've just continued on with the character as male. I would say it was an arbitrary choice, but it wasn't. I'm a male and I imagine myself as the character.
To my previous statement about deciding to just write one version with the main character as a male, I have a couple of responses.
First, you're right, it's not a solution, but I took the overwhelming lack of responses or suggestions to mean that most people found it a non-issue. I know many more people read this post than the few that commented on it because of the blog hit counter so I wondered if I was maybe making a bigger deal out of it than I needed to. After all, how many other stories of this sort get posted with no consideration paid to gender equality or accessibility?
Secondly, I actually posted a response to Sildenafil's suggestion to use invented pronouns such as 'sie' and 'hir' instead of gender specific ones. Either it didn't go through or got deleted, but basically I said that this seems like it may be the best solution. I think it would be much easier to use these unusual terms and post a note explaining their meaning so that everyone can read the story and mentally translate them to mean whatever they want, rather than identify a character one way, then ask a specific part of the audience to see them differently. Glitch was a game full of funny words and logical leaps so using unusual terms doesn't seem so out of place.
I could probably go on, but I think I'll stop here. I think (I hope) I've addressed your main points, but I have a problem with rambling when I'm writing if I'm not careful.
I hope you can see that I mean well. I don't want this to become a statement, I really just want to write a story that anyone might enjoy. -
I'd like to encourage you to post this to the Archive of our Own. You own anything you post to AO3. It's a way for fanfic to be collected (without any of the heavy-handed administration that sites like fanfic.net are notorious for).
There are only 11 works there so far for Glitch: http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Glitch%20(video%20game)/works
Works in progress are not just permitted but encouraged, and there are ways for people to 'subscribe' to your work to be notified when you make an update. - Very cool, Moose. Thanks for the link. I saw something about this on the forums a while ago, but I never went back to look into it. I think I'll keep the blog going because I like the control it gives me, but I will definitely check out the site and contribute to the Glitch section.
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I would like to put in a request that you also post it to FFN, because there's only one Glitchfic there, and I have a thing about collecting all my favorites in one place, and it makes me sad when I can't add fics I like to my list because they're only found on AO3 or LJ or DW or...
If it's too much trouble, then don't worry about it. I just wish more people would cross-post to FFN from other sites, that's all. /longstandingissue - I am open to posting it just about anywhere if people want to read it. I'll look into it. Thanks!
- fwiw, also approve of gender neutral pronouns in your work, especially since the world of Glitch was so careful/respectful with regard to that. Cheers, and happy writing!
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Thanks for the input and suggestions. I've tried a couple of different things and come to a decision. What I've decided to do is post two versions of each chapter, one with the main character as male, the other with the main character as female. I've already created separate versions of the pieces I've written and it doesn't take that much effort to do. Literally the only differences will be the pronouns used in reference to the main character.
I did try out those invented non-gender-specific pronouns. I read through it several times and had a friend who's been sort-of proof reading and providing input throughout read through it as well. She and I both agreed that while the idea is sound the words are greatly distracting because they are unfamiliar to us.
That's why I've decided on posting two versions and readers will be free to choose the version they prefer. Ironically, even though I started with the main character as a male I will likely continue writing the story with her as a female simply because it's easy to find and replace words like "she" and "her" whereas the letter combos "he" and "his" are much more common in other words.
If this all seems a bit blown out of proportion to you, I apologize. It was a simple idea I had at the beginning of this story, but it is obviously a topic that some people take very seriously and every Glitchen should get to feel like a hero.
Incidentally I was originally inspired by this news story about a father switching Link's gender in Windwaker so his daughter could imagine herself in the game. -
Here's a suggestion. Just state they are a Glitch, and put a description that Glitchens are technically sexless (because they are) but they can have feminine or masculine qualities as well as just being, with neither quality much like Tii. It's a thought though, and I wish you luck with your work.
I also want to know what FFN is. -
I'm going to have a note explaining the reason behind having two versions, I just felt like that on it's own wasn't enough. Thanks for the well-wishes.
And I believe Kestin is referring to FanFiction.net - Hmm...the non-use of gender-neutral pronouns just because they sound awkward is kind of self-defeating -- how are they supposed to become familiar to us if we don't start using them?
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You are totally right. I can't defend that statement except to say that this was never supposed to be in support of gender-neutral pronouns. I seriously considered them as an option to make it more accessible, but determined their unfamiliarity might ultimately make it a more cumbersome read.
Another issue is looking at the Wikipedia entry where I pulled my invented pronouns from there are over 10 different sets in use (and I'm sure more that aren't listed), so there was the question of which ones to use. If the Glitch community had made wide use of invented pronouns (gender-specific or neutral) then I would have used those in a heartbeat.
I hope my choice hasn't offended anyone, and if it has I apologize. I never intended to make a statement about the lack of gender-neutral pronouns in the English language, I just wanted to write a story in which people could imagine themselves. -
I think that posting two separate versions does more to reinforce binary gender than anything else, which seems to defeat your stated purpose. I don't think I've seen a case made for the use of singular they in your story, rather than created gender-neutral pronouns; as articles like this demonstrate, there is plenty of evidence in favor of its use, and I believe it's something that your beta reader - and your audience - will find much easier to adapt to.
I also hope you find the occasion to use ma'amsir and sirma'am in your dialogue. ;-) -
The use of "they" is a possibility, but I feel that it would be even more awkward than using gender-neutral pronouns, because it follows plural conventions, meaning you would always have to say "they are" even if you're just referring to one person.
If the issue is deciding which set of pronouns to use, I would suggest either ze/zir or sie/hir, as both seem to be popular choices. And I'm sure that after a few chapters, many readers will get used to it.
However, if you're secure in your decision to stay within the gender binary, I say just pick one and stick with it. There's no rule saying Glitchen can't have gender identities, but two versions of each chapter is just cumbersome. -
I did consider using the singular "they," but it read odd to me as well. I don't think it's wrong, it just didn't feel quite right. Similarly I tried using the indefinite "it," though "it" presents its own problems in that it creates an emotional distance, like the Glitchen is a thing, not a person.
I think I may have been a little unclear in my aims in the original post, although it has lead to some interesting discussion. I never meant to abolish binary gender in Glitchen. What I was implying is that the Glitchen themselves at their base state are genderless, allowing us as players to assign them whatever traits we wish. It's different from a game that lets you build a character by first forcing you to choose a gender. We were able to change ours on the fly. I played my character as a male. I never said directly that he was male, but that's how I dressed him in my mind and that's how I imagined him. I have friends that played as females and friends that played as neither. The goal I was trying to accomplish was not to say "this character is neither male nor female," but rather to allow the reader a choice to fill in those blanks in a way that satisfies them.
I think I did not know quite what I was getting into when I posed the question and I have learned quite a bit about gender-neutrality in language and writing. Part of me thinks this got blown out of proportion and maybe I should have picked a gender and stuck with it, but the other part (the more curious majority) enjoys the fact that this forum is full of intelligent readers with valid arguments rather than trolls.
Still another part of me thinks that I'm going to continue posting chapters of the story and all of you are going to read them and wonder why you bothered weighing-in on such a terrible waste-of-time story. But that's just the self-conscious part of me. These forums help me keep that part mostly under control. -
FFN is the infamous Pit of Voles, FanFiction.Net. Its nickname comes in part because 2/3 of the stuff posted there is by whiny 12 yr olds with the grammar skills of a canary (I only wish I were joking).
The other part is because the people who run the site randomly change the rules on the fly. In the past things have happened such as thousands of works being deleted for "rule violation" with no warning (or backup). I would be leery of posting anything on FFN.
AO3 (archiveofourown.org) started mostly because people got tired of a corporation deciding how a fanfic archive should be run. AO3 is completely fan run, from the board of directors to the technical people who make it all work. No one will delete anything on you by surprise or change the rules suddenly. -
For anyone still interested in reading the story as it comes out, the first true part (after the prologue) went up today. Merry Glitchmas, everyone!
Check it out.
I haven't put it up on any other fanfic sites because I've been super busy getting ready for the holidays. I'll have a lot more free time after tomorrow so hopefully I'll get around to it this week. -
Seems the conversation's gotten pretty active since I last peeked in. I don't really check the forums any more so I hadn't been keeping track.
WCH, thanks for taking my concerns and the concerns of other contributors to this thread seriously. Getting called on your privilege is never a comfortable situation and you've handled it with class. I just want to say a couple things real quick:
The main point is that gender never plays any sort of role in the story.
That's very easy to say when you've never had to go through life being excluded by the language in almost everything you see and read. For me, encountering yet another movie or TV show or novel with a dudebro hero hanging around with his dudebro friends and dealing with dudebro concerns just makes me tired. I imagine all the authors of those works protesting, "What! It's not about gender! It's about Hero McHero doing heroic things! Hero McHero just HAPPENS to be a dude like all the rest! It's not a political statement, it's just an adventure story that ANYONE can like!" And so on. But the fact that this is tediously predictable and culture-wide is not the same as saying that it doesn't matter / that it's a side-issue / that nobody notices.
I think what I'm trying to say is, you seem to think that you can somehow avoid making a statement about gender by defaulting to your own gender. But sadly, we're so mired in exclusive language (again: not your fault! not a problem you can fix by yourself!) that, sadly, every story ends up being a Statement whether you like it or not. It's kinda like those people who say "I don't care about politics! I'm apolitical and don't vote!" That, of course, is a very political stance to take (whether it's a good or a bad one is a different issue of course, but it's not NEUTRAL).
Put even more briefly: I have no problem with making the decision to use "he" as such. But I get a little bristly when that's followed up with the claim that the "he" is universal. It's not. It's a "he" and you have to own it.
Your final decision to write multiple versions of the story with multiple pronouns is really interesting. I wonder if it could work as a kind of Choose Your Own Adventure deal where you invite the reader to choose a gender (or a genderless "they" or "zie") and then the story loads up with those pronouns through some kind of webform magic. If your primary concern is to make the reader feel included in your story, then it stands to reason that you ask them how best to make them feel comfortable. I don't force coffee on my guests; I ask them what they would like to drink. :)
P.S.
After all, how many other stories of this sort get posted with no consideration paid to gender equality or accessibility?
Careful now, you don't want to look like a cookie seeker. ;) -
@WCH: I read your first chapter and it's really great! Thanks for taking the time to do this, I'll be looking forward to seeing how the rest of the story unfolds.
Oh... and just so you know, the first chapter is listed twice in the blog. dunno if you wanted that or not...
@Pale Queen: Did you just say COOKIES?
Credits to TanithLow, who first showed that to me here. Thanks again for the hilarity TL! hahaha -
@Pale Queen: It's pretty late here already so I'll keep this brief. I try to take everyone's input seriously as long as they're serious and respectful. Trolls are easy to ignore, but there's nothing wrong with an open discussion.
I realize I've never been on the female side of anything and I can't really know what it's like to read from your point of view. I do get what you're saying about gender playing a role even when authors claim the hero's gender doesn't really matter. It's impossible to ignore despite our best intentions because that's how humans are. All I can say is none of my characters are human, there is no affection or relationships involved beyond being friends and literally the only difference between the two versions is after I finish writing a section I go through and swap the pronouns. That's how I see it, but you'll have to make your own determination.
And you're right about it being a statement whether I want it to or not. I wouldn't have brought it up if I didn't have some sort of opinion, I just don't want it to be the MAIN thing people get from the story. Mostly I just want a story people will enjoy.
I promise I'm not looking for brownie points. There are all kinds of gender inequality out there, and I'm not a crusader by any means, but it is something I've become more aware of over the years. It may sound selfish, but it stems from me being a pretty hard-core gamer and getting tired of being treated like a "dudebro" by game makers. It's offensive to women to be portrayed as one-dimensional sex objects and it's offensive to me that designers think that's what I want in a game. I want a compelling story and well written characters, no matter the gender.
@Sweet Stuff: Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. My goal is to post a new chapter every week. It's posted twice because there are two versions. In one version Wonder is a male, in the other Wonder is a female. If you go to the Table of Contents there's a link to both version, you choose which one you want to read. -
Glitch was so exciting because I could use Lorian, a "character"/aspect that is gender-complex. Goes by male pronouns (it makes my head hurt trying to use gender-neutral ones) and usually prefers being thought of as a boy. But has a female body and wears girls clothes with no sense of "cross-dressing", some times even calls himself a girl though not often. I have never had a game where gender nonconformity was so much a non-issue like here in Glitch. It was shocking, but exciting to get to use Lorian for it. Even by people who one would expect to "get" it, Lorian gets shoved into categories that do not fit. He isn't transgendered, really not, but that's all others seem to think he is. In Glitch is the only place I've ever "exposed" Lorian as more than just a vague concept, and he fit right in.
Anyway, this whole discussion has got my curiousity about your story so I went and read it. I like it! It made me sniff a bit, but it was lovely to read. I added your journal to my reading list thing. I like Wonder's name, can't wait to see Wonder learning to jump!