Topic
What kept Glitch mostly nice?
Please note: I have no personal interest in using anything beyond PG-13 language on the public areas of the site. That would not be kind nor respectful to the team that poured their heart out to give us such a wonderful game. BUT, my curiosity burns. What, if anything, kept people from running around and using NSFW language and concepts on the site? I can think of some really amusing and non PG things to name pigs and chickens, for instance. I will confess that the jack o'lanterns inside my house had some obscenely funny and X rated things to say, but I live with the only other person who had access to see them. I would never drop an X rated thing outside, because, that just wouldn't have been a very Glitchy thing to do. However, it surprised me that no one else did either.
TO CLARIFY, I am not talking about mildly risque stuff that is just funny, or cursing about stuff to let off steam, or even being cheerfully vulgar. I mean people saying really ugly and foul things to each other just to be ugly and foul. Think the kind of nasty trash talk you see on PvP servers, and how that spills over into some non PvP games. You know. Racism, sexism, yelling obscenities just to annoy people, being hurtful to others, defiling or trashing things and people. That's what I didn't see (and certainly didn't miss!) in Glitch. I regularly see it on other gaming platforms, even ones that limit or prohibit PvP.
I'm sure there were mods to discourage egregious behavior, but I don't think there were ever enough of them to keep so close an eye on things that I literally never saw anything like this, not once, in the months I played.
Which leads me to a very interesting conclusion about the uniqueness of the social dynamic of the Glitch community. It is a real loss that the social experiment can not continue, because if I'm right on this, I think it could have mattered in more ways than just a game.
Am I right? Did thousands of people spontaneously decide to *just be nice*, because the fundamental principles of the game gently led them in this direction without the need for draconian rules or stern enforcement?
If this is true, maybe Glitch was something bigger and more important to us as a species than just a failed browser game.
Food for thought.
Edited to clarify, since folks were thinking I was talking about SFW in an actual workplace context, or about jack o'lanters not being Glitchy. That's not what I was trying to communicate at all. To be clear, the jack o'lanterns inside my house issued explicit and comedic sexual invitations, and I wouldn't put them in a public place. They were pretty funny, though, and I wish I'd taken snaps of them.
Replies
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SFW? Have I been playing the same game as you? People can be nice without being SFW which is one of the many, many things I have drawn from this game.
Above all else I have embraced the diverse range of people that play Glitch and have never felt more accepted for being myself in any online or real life environment.
I don't know why the people in Glitch are special as I have never played an online game before and so have nothing to compare it to in terms on online experience.
I do however from RL experience believe that peoples attitudes and behaviour are more powerful and contagious than they realise.
A couple of years ago my former boss gave us all these posters for our desks with the old Ghandi quote - Be the change you want to see in the world.
Of course, we all reacted the same way behind his back as we are not dolphin hugger type people and so we thought it a bit half-hearted and naff. That's when a couple of us thought, I wonder if I could change peoples attitudes (which were pretty negative at the time) towards each other/drudgery of work without it being so obvious and try-hard.
I did this in big and small ways - whether it was just being overly psychotic nice to someone who is always a complete douche to me, playing a secret game of wank word bingo with colleagues during meetings or organising weird events or creating in jokes. Gradually everyone got onboard with this thinking and we are the most tight knit bunch of people in the dept to the point where nobody wants to leave.
I think Glitch is the same. We all believe very much in the spirit of this game and that spirit is contagious. - I mean, why didn't people run around giving names to pigs and chickens that included the F-word, things like that. I don't mean being a little risque or suggestive by way of being a little bit funny, I mean the kind of outright X-rated ugliness I've seen in other places.
- I have seen many animals with obscene names. Even players with obscene or offensive names. Maybe you just haven't noticed.
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Ah! Because what's the fun in vulgarity? Cussing, sexual innuendos, double entrende, et al. are a lot funnier.
It's like the difference between someone being nude versus the same person wearing a diaphanous garment. -
I agree completely with Mal'akh.
In terms of acceptable use of language and concepts - I think the perception of what is deemed to be SFW/NSFW is down to the individual. I don't think there is a definitive answer to that part of your question. - Yeah, the giant dong tower of cubimals in Feman Falters certainly wasn't sfw!
- What an interesting discussion!
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Wait, putting innuendo-spewing pumpkins on our streets wouldn't be Glitchy? What the...? And you never saw a jack on someone's doorstep? That's impressive, considering I've seen entire streets decorated with just them, all of them.
There's also a difference between "being nice" and "being SFW". I swear all the time, and I don't think any of my friends think I'm not nice when I say something like "Okay everyone, here's some fucking delicious pie!". Especially when my pies typically are so delicious that they require some expression of extra deliciousness. Of course, when I worked in a restaurant, I still cursed all the time. But I don't usually curse around my in-laws because they aren't comfortable with it and I want to get along with them, even if I really wish I could just curse.
There is remarkable niceness in Glitch, but it has nothing to do with "cleanness" or prudishness or anything like that. It's in players giving each other gifts and helping out, rather than PKing each other (admittedly, PKing isn't a possibility in Glitch, though I suppose you could kill someone's mood if you garlicked them enough times....). -
I think a lot of what makes the Glitch community work is, yes, a general predisposition to fair behavior... but also the fact that there is a high value placed on humor.
Let's say someone gives a chicken a four-letter word for a name, or "u suck," or whatever. Someone else will probably rename it... not because they're offended, but because they have a better joke.
That said, you know what was really offensive? All those chickens named "STEVE." Boring, boring, boring. - +1 Georgia ^^
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Okay, it's a valid point that I was using "SFW" as a synonym for "people not being aggressively sexually vulgar in-world". So I changed the title, as that's legitimately what I was talking about.
@Faranae, I'm aware that kids play this game, and my pumpkins said things that were way naughtier than just innuendo. So putting those on my street where someone underage or nonconsenting would be, er, solicited by them, didn't seem very in keeping with the spirit of a game where folks seemed mainly out to be nice to each other.
I've seen some things in other games that were way beyond, "This sandwich is fucking delicious", where players habitually used profanity as more of a childish weapon. I never saw that in Glitch, and it was remarkably refreshing. -
Mablem, you're drawing some strange conclusions there...there's nothing insensitive about this topic. SFW doesn't necessarily mean anyone's talking about playing at work, it's just a handy way of defining a certain level of 'cleanliness' for a website. Same as 'family friendly' doesn't imply you're playing with your kids.
And I don't see any discussion about whether playing games at work is appropriate or not. That's a completely different issue, and between you, your employer, and your conscience.
On topic: I wondered the same thing! Sure, there was profanity in Glitch, but nothing compared to what most of the internet looks like. I can't imagine the game was THAT heavily modded, so...maybe people really did feel SO good here, that it wasn't just a game, that they felt a bit like they'd be crapping in their own living room if they started with the obscenities?
Bah, maybe! No maybe, that's how it was, I'm sure. -
It was me, I did it.
(But for real, I think the fact that there was no PvP violence or conflict had a LOT to do with it. Both with the type of people it attracted, and the atmosphere it gave the game.) - Edited to clarify, since folks were thinking I was talking about SFW in an actual workplace context, or about jack o'lanters not being Glitchy. That's not what I was trying to communicate at all. To be clear, the jack o'lanterns inside my house issued explicit and comedic sexual invitations, and I wouldn't put them in a public place. They were pretty funny, though, and I wish I'd taken snaps of them.
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@Cefedia, perhaps you came to the thread after the title and some of the OP were edited. That might account for your confusion.
Perhaps if I edited my original post, it would make your response seem absurd as well. Food for thought. -
A few reasons that come to my mind:
- the community is relatively small
- the average age is relatively high
- the game doesn't really attract competitive people
- there are not many possibilities of being mean in the game (but they all get abused: replant issues, stealing placed items in towers etc.)
But at the forums not everything is great. Even here people whine about everything and I've rarely seen such passionate, aggressive fangirls/-boys. ;) -
I think Sare's on to something about the small community which typically consists of adults or teens who are more mellow paired with low-competition, high-cooperation gameplay. Yes, we do see childish behavior regardless of the offending party's age, but I think it's more of the status quo in Glitch to promote a healthy community.
Things such as the whole recent "Asslandia" debacle reveal that some community members have trouble when opinions clash, and the reason tree poison gives a guilt debuff is because someone once went on a crusade against trees in a large area.
Though the Glitch community is far from spotless, it is still among the best out there. If I had to conjecture, I would say that the same reason we are blessed with a relatively small and welcoming community is the same reason that the population couldn't achieve critical mass in the first place: the main stream is too caught up in competitive games; that is not to say that there's anything automatically wrong with such games or the individuals who play them (another thing the community sometimes does is to stigmatize competitive or combative games and the players therein). - If the game had survived I think someone would have a terrific thesis on building a community. Kindness, manners, humour, generosity, cooperation, tolerance - without being "politically correct". We have no leaders, no laws. Of course there's no pressure here. But it's a vision of what could be.
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@Patricia
Actually... One of my friends is making something like that and asked me to help him. He and I are both in the academe. -
I think the design of the game had a lot to do with it.
There's an article here where Jenova Chen, the creator of Journey, discusses morality in games and how to design a game where people want to help each other and cooperate. The main takeaway here is the principle of feedback - players in a game explore the game in much the same way as a baby who doesn't yet understand right or wrong, and so they search for what gives them the most feedback. Journey accomplished a very moving cooperative environment by simply not allowing players to hurt or impede each other. Thus, it was boring to try, and much more interesting to cooperate.
Glitch has a similar sort of design. There's almost nothing harmful you can do. The most aggressive thing you can do to another character is splanking, which is only one of a number of social actions, and the friendly ones offer better rewards anyway. You COULD splank someone to death, but it would be far more trouble than it was worth. More fun to high-five them as you pass. Of course you can ransack somebody's garden and leave it a weedy mess, leave all their rocks half-mined, whatever, but that's a mere annoyance and more often a consequence of laziness than malice. And there's very little, if anything, you can do to harm the world. You can't kill a pig. You can poison trees, but you're rewarded for curing them too and the poison isn't easy to come by. Besides, if you kill a tree, somebody else will replant as soon as they find the bare patch. But from your very first steps into Ur, you can pet and water trees any time. So you're trained to think in terms of being kind and coexisting, rather than harming, simply from the lack of harmful options, and the rewards you get for creating things and nurturing the environment around you.
So by the time you can make a Jack-o-lantern, or name a chicken, you're already used to the idea that Ur is all about being excellent to each other. You don't particularly WANT to be a jerk and put obscene or hurtful things where a more sensitive player could see them. You want to name that chicken after a favorite character, or a great groaner of a pun, or something else creative - something nice. You want to leave a gift for that person whose rocks you just mined because their butler gave you something nice, or their resources helped you get a badge, or you just like their digs. All because, early in the game, it was difficult and boring to be destructive and easy and fun to be creative and helpful.
That kindness-first game design is what makes the game such a soothing and welcoming place, in the same way that Journey seems to be a very meaningful emotional experience for its players.
Whatever happens from here, I hope that the gaming industry takes a cue from Glitch. You CAN make your game a pleasant and inviting place where players cooperate. And I think more developers should. - @keysong - Thank you for the articulate answer I was hoping for.
- @Keysong - That is very encouraging news. I, also, hope this game ideal is pursued.
- Thank you, Keysong! Well said and makes perfect sense to me. I love your phrase "...being excellent to each other." That's glitch in a nutshell.
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Ditto, Keysong!
In addition, I have a little observation of mine that would support some of the above-said statements - referring to role of the non-competitive, maximal reward from niceness, and virtually no punishment qualities of the game. I know a few fellow Glitch players who also play very violent and competitive games both online and installed (I am one of them). And in those games other fellows and I behave as the circumstances require: solely for my own profit (even in team games), cheating when available/profitable, complete annihilation of my 'enemies' (AI or human) to make sure there is no comeback, looting everything in sight, and certainly abundant in obscenities. And the list could go on.
On the other hand, the nature of Glitch (graphic design, soundtrack, humour, emphasis in maximal reward from being nice, cooperative games/quests etc.), plus - and this is important - the lack of any specific goals to 'win' (which kind of makes it boring in the long term, not much to do) make players behave in a certain way, i.e. 'nice' or 'fair', again, me included.
In conclusion, I don't think that us, the Glitchens, are a better, nicer, Glitch self-selected, unique snowflake, ginger kind of a crowd, we are just normal folk reinforced to be that way in this game. I believe humans are the same; we are the same ass-holes and jack-asses from the other online interactions; we just play this one differently. I know I do. - No, I saw the original title, Mablem, no confusion there.
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sorry Iza_c, personally I have to disagree with your final statement. I was drawn to Glitch because of the way the game is played. I love the fact that my natural niceness is rewarded rather than abused. I don't like those "kill-all or be killed" games and I don't play them, firstly because I find them boring and pointless with little background story and also because I feel sooooo guilty at the thought of looting and killing for ones own gain alone that I'm sure I would be annihilated constantly if I even attempted to play.
So, its not just the way the game is played that makes us nice, sometimes its the case that nice people have searched far and wide, online and off, before finally stumbling upon Glitch and making a little nest in the one game they feel at home in. Or maybe thats just me lol! - I believe it was mostly the game and mostly the community working together for a common good. The game fueled a "nice" feeling and the community for the most part, saw no need for vulgarity. There were a few occasions early on when the animals were named something someone found inappropriate and thus were renamed. I will admit to helping with that cause. there were also a few screen names that were reported. So we also again have to give thanks to TS to policing but not being overtly obnoxious about it. After all most of us are grownups, isn't this the way grownups act?
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@Talia. I am glad that you found a game that suits you. And I am sad that you have to see it gone.
Maybe, for some of the Glitch community, what you suggest is indeed correct: that the game hones on some 'natural niceness' in some people, a feature scarce (but not entirely absent, see Farmville and the like which specifically and drastically reinforces helping behavior) in popular virtual games. That still doesn't explain why my behavior (and others', I assure you) is changed in Glitch, nor am I ready to accept the possibility that because I also play violent games I am somewhat inferior or I lack "natural niceness" (not that you implied such things). Conversely, I find it a little arrogant and presumptuous to assume that I am somehow better than other people, 'nicer' as it were, just because I play - and enjoy - Glitch. - The game stayed nice because of me, all me. You're welcome.
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I also think the abundance of resources, and the ease in getting them, helped keep Glitch nice. You need barnacle talc? Let's go scrape barnacles together, and I'll give all I get so you have twice as many. You need grain? I've got 12,000 in an sdb you can have. It's no problem, it's easy to get more.
Not long after the closing announcement, I decided I wanted to try to reach level 60 before the game is over. I had just hit 58, and I figured I could do it. I posted something on my status update about wanting to buy EHSP so I could hit 60. Within minutes, friends were giving me bags and jars of it, along with things to donate. No one would take any kind of payment. Granted, if the game weren't closing, they probably would have wanted *something* in return, even if it was just a stack of awesome stew to cover the energy cost of gathering ingredients and making it. Still, with everything so easy to get, it has always been easy to be generous to our friends or even to random people.
And a huge part of why Glitch is such a "nice" game is because of the staff. Having a Live Help chat available 24/7, with staff available nearly all the time answering questions and fixing problems... that's just unheard of in any other game I have encountered. It's a lot easier to be nice to people when things are running smoothly, and you don't have to wait a month to have a problem addressed. - Ugh. I hate the word natural, like, 90% of the time.
- Definitely agree with that Zany....unlike alot of games, when I went to live help on Glitch i used to actually get "live help" rather than usually putting me on hold which is what happens elsewhere. They cared about the game and the community and I wish them all the best for the future, cause thats what they deserve.
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I have been fortunate to have become acquainted with nice and funny people here who have, for the most part, used PG language. There have been a few funny risque and/or x-rated things but nothing that has put me off other than one new person I Greeted who said nothing but a long stream of 4 letter obscenities (I tele'd out an never saw him again).
I think most of the players here (even the youngest ones) are genuinely good folks with maturity, manners and consideration for others. This Game seems to attract good folks. This is my second MMO and both have had many good, civil players who have enjoyed the games are are not juvenile enough (no matter their ages) to find bad behavior and language "fun".
I have enjoyed knowing and meeting so many of you and hope to find you again one day in another great game or on another site someplace. Thank You for playing with me!