Topic
Medium/large petrified rocks are problematic
So, you've now arranged things such that everyone has the opportunity, playing leisurely, over time, to claim all the special prizes from a Feat, in the form of small petrified rocks. That's really cool. Here's the problem: medium and large petrified rocks are themselves special prizes from a Feat.
I have two large rocks which were fairly difficult to get, compared to most everything else I've ever gotten in Glitch. It's quite possible that I'll never earn another one. Now I can crack them open... or I can keep them. Or sell them. I've seen small rocks -- small rocks! -- traded for hundreds of thousands of currants. Imagine how much a medium rock would sell for. Imagine there are (at least for the immediate future) fewer large rocks in the game than there are Highest Quality #1 "Imported" Glitchmas Yetis, and what exactly is my motivation to exchange mine for a few pieces of an ancient artifact that anyone and everyone will get in the long run?
You've successfully eliminated the super-special-hardcore-rewarditude from the artifact pieces, but now you need to remove it from the medium and large rocks themselves.
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Proposed solution #1: Medium and large petrified rocks could automatically grind after a certain amount of time.
This would eliminate any advantage that could only be gained by outcompeting everyone else. The only exclusive benefit is a one-time iMG boost for "discovering a new useful item", and this isn't visible to other players at the moment. One issue would be dealing with large rocks that have been stored away in SDBs. Possibly remove those from the SDBs and give the contents to the magic rock for safekeeping.
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Alternate solution #2: Medium and large petrified rocks could be soulbound.
This keeps these rocks off the market, but still allows the winners to grind them at their choosing if they wanted to sell their prizes. This doesn't prevent players from showing off their rewards in towers, which could be thought of as an advantage (as that's about all the artifacts are good for as well) so this solution isn't perfect by any means.
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Problematic solution #3: Instead of medium and large petrified rocks, award a random assortment of artifact pieces (as was done for "Mihceal, Blow that Conch") along with a couple small rocks.
This would seem like the best option to me, except that by discontinuing medium and large rocks the situation would be even worse than it was before the start of the Epic. So this suggestion could only be implemented in combination with solution #1 or #2.
Replies
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I would assume that the base price for small petrified rocks is going to go down once we either have more feats or possibly even a set schedule of feats. Similarly, the rarity for large and medium rocks are going to change over time. So maybe in the long run, there will be less desire to horde them.
I do agree that the rest of your point still stands at present and possibly for a good while depending on how often feats happen. At the same time, I wonder if changing it right now is necessary. - I'm not sure changing it is necessary. Nobody wanted to come away from a Feat empty-handed, but that's been taken care of very nicely with the beads and a small chance of artifact pieces in small rocks. I personally have no problem that top 26 players have a choice of hanging onto a valuable large/medium rock as a trophy instead of cracking it for pieces of an artifact that will eventually become fairly common.
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Why is it bad that there are very rare items?
If people really want them they'll put the effort in a short period of time during a feat or they'll put in effort over a long period of time to collect currants.
In your terms, what is the problem with a super-special-hardcore-reward? -
Merely introducing a super-special-hardcore-reward isn't a problem. However, they introduced it at the same time that they made a blog post about how the Feat rewards were no longer super-special-hardcore.
"All participants, regardless of whether they made the top contributor list, now have a chance to get pieces of the ancient artifacts that previously only went to the top contributors."
http://www.glitch.com/blog/2012/10/12/the-epic-of-feats/
They wrote that, and then they went ahead and created two new items that only went to the top contributors. That seems inconsistent to me. Why would you bother spending development time on two new special items to give top contributors when, in the previous system, you were already giving special items only to the top contributors?
Here's another post, this time from stoot barfield in the "Feats are back" thread (emphasis mine):
"Colette: "It's clear that the way this is going some players will eventually win/collect entire artifacts that will never be available to the losers to earn."
I don't think so: all someone has to do is take one action during a feat in order to have a chance at an artifact piece, and the actions which count as contributions to a feat are typically things that players do anyway. So, as long as aren't in an urgent rush to get all the artifacts, they can collect them, leisurely, in the normal course of play. Posted 5 days ago by stoot barfield | Permalink "
Despite this, they managed to create a situation in which the only way to get two of the items is to rush at them more urgently than all but 204 of the playerbase.
I suppose the intent could have been to create multiple tiers of Feat items, one tier being the guaranteed necklace beads, one tier being the uncommon artifact pieces, and one tier being ... the medium and large rocks? But even then I would expect the third tier to be a set of collectibles as well, to stay in line with the other two. It's also weird that, if the medium and large rocks are intended to be an elite reward, those items would be so similar to the small rocks in description and function.
That's my understanding of the situation, anyway. Even if I'm misinterpreting how the system is intended to work, the fact remains that for the immediate future, cracking open these large rocks is a rather bad idea.
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Strawman solution #4: medium and large rocks should contain an extremely rare artifact piece that can't be acquired from small rocks.
This solution would make the collectible prizes more consistent with the other prize sets, without changing the distribution of rare prizes in any way, and it would encourage players to crack the rocks open. But I don't like this solution at all. - -1 Sounds like a solution searching for a problem.
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I can't see that the problem you are addressing actually exists.
Some items are rarer than others. Not a problem as far as I can see.
Alopecurus wrote: and then they went ahead and created two new items that only went to the top contributors. That seems inconsistent to me. Why would you bother spending development time on two new special items to give top contributors when, in the previous system, you were already giving special items only to the top contributors?
Because the items being given out, beads and pieces of artefact have a chance of being in any of them. All TS said was
"All participants, regardless of whether they made the top contributor list, now have a chance to get pieces of the ancient artifacts that previously only went to the top contributors."
That says a chance of a piece, not an equal chance of a piece. I can see no inconsistency there -
"That says a chance of a piece, not an equal chance of a piece. I can see no inconsistency there"
My impression remains that in the normal course of leisurely play, there is no chance whatsoever of earning two of the possible reward items. That is the inconsistency.
Do correct me if I'm wrong, though. Are these two reward items occasionally handed out to players who aren't in the top 205 / top 26? If so, then I misunderstood the entire situation and this topic is moot. -
The petrified rocks, of any size, are not the rewards, their contents are. And a small rock contains either an artefact piece, a bead, currants or other item. A medium or large rock contains more than one from an artefact piece, a bead, currants or other item. It is possible that the small petrified rock might not contain the item you lust after, but that is true of the medium and large ones too.
If you take even the smallest part in a feat you have a chance of any of the rewards, including artefact pieces, you just have a bigger chance if you have a medium or large petrified rock. -
I get the OPs point - a large rock is much rarer than it's contents. Why open it?
To which I say, why indeed? What's the problem here? -
I understand your point Alopecurus, that the uncracked medium and large rocks can be seen as hard-core rewards. I just can't manage to be even vaguely disturbed by it. TS has done such a nice job with the "casual" rewards that I think it's cool that players who worked really hard to leaderboard get a special rock that they can display or sell rather than cracking if they prefer.
Remember that rare items are really important in MMOs. Some players' idea of fun is to accumulate as many rare items as possible as a display of wealth or status. Others are highly motivated to get trophies, badges, titles, or other ways to show the completion of difficult or time-consuming tasks. A game developer has to put those items in a game. Level the playing field too much and those players get bored. If the medium and large rocks inadvertently help fill the niche for trophy/rare items, it's probably a good thing, not a bad one. - Hmmm I do see what you mean. I have a medium rock I can't bring myself to crack. Still its not like a huge problem but I do see your point.