Topic
New Skill System
So i wanted to get everyone opinion on the new skill system.
Personally I am very sad to say I don't like it very much, I've never really like games where there are actual timers set in to the progress. It made me feel like i was playing something like Maffia Wars or We Rule where I'm just waiting for the timer to finish so I can do something new.
I really enjoy glitch and I think it's a great concept but I feel like a skill system based on timers doesn't at all fit this game, I think you should try and take a small step away from conventional XP and skill systems for this game and try something that fits better with the spirit of the game.
Replies
- I liked it better this way although I'm not sure if I'd want to wait more than 20 minutes for a skill to complete. The previous method was too instant for me. I didn't feel I'd earned it.
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I definitely agree that the old system didn't feel right either, I maxed out animal kinship in and hour or so. Something I forgot to mention is that these kinds of timer based systems usually scale horribly, waiting an hour or so for a skill to finish and all you have to do is just stand around for it to happen definitely isn't very fun.
Something you could always do is keep this system in for people who don't have a lot of time to play the game but also have a way to do things in the game to progress your skill. Just a thought. - I think doing things to earn the skill would be better. In other words to get the mining skill you have to do some mining, perhaps with less chunks produced until you get the hang of it.
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I am not sure what I think. I don't think I understand the timer concept..I felt like Neo learning kungfu in The Matrix, except much slower. I guess I didn't understand the point of that, although it certainly didn't bother me.
I like the idea of being able to pursue many skills at once, but I was wishing that electing to do them would result in a skill quest right away. I like the idea of having many things I could be working on simultaneously, but no pressure to achieve anything in particular.
I need to think about this a bit more. I think it's better than it was, but not quite there yet. -
Well, it isn't quite there yet: a way to speed advancement through activity is planned (and probably not that far off from being implemented) but the advantages of this system over the old system are very big, IMO:
(1) De-coupling skill and level decreases the feeling that the game is all about levellng up (levels/XP don't really matter now, except for those who want to compete on that basis).
(2) In the old system, skills had to be of roughly equivalent value since they all "cost" exactly one skill point – this introduced pretty harsh design constraints.
(3) In the old system, the level cap was the skill cap and that number was bound to be fairly low (50? 80? 100?); in the new system we can add as many skills as we want.
Putting (2) and (3) together means more novelty or single purpose skills are possible (we haven't done much of that yet – mostly just ported the old skills over – but now at least it is possible).
Ultimately, it will have to take some time to learn a new skill: otherwise the (advancement) game is over all at once.
(Also, skills will keep learning while you are offline, so the idea is that you'd select quicker learning skills while playing and the choose a big long one when it was time to sign off for the night.) - Actually, I wonder if I can even really have an opinion on this at this point. I think I have played enough that I take too many things for granted and I can't play with a fresh perspective. But I will add (and then shut up) that the sense of grindiness is definitely gone and that is really nice.
- I noticed my last skill kept counting down after signoff today.
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I must say it's nice to have the staff answering with fast and long answers!
Anyway it's nice to hear that you are thinking along the same lines as me then and i agree with you on most points, especially when it comes to decoupling the xp and skill systems. (on a side note, it would be cool to see something like cosmetic upgrades from leveling, making it a little attractive for the people not competing for the level crown as well)
Now that I've heard more about your plans and reasons for the new system I think you will strike a good balance and it's good that you seem to treading lightly with the whole timer thing.
Oh and don't get me wrong, I want the skill development to take time, I don't really mind if it takes me twice as long as the timers are now, I just want to work for it! But since you are adding a system that makes me able to work for it when I want to and then still able to get progression when working towards something else (and just having a skill timer runing) that sounds good to me! -
does levels still determine max energy? I think it does. I'd like to see general bonuses from leveling but not much else.
i.e. max energy, a couple bag slots maybe every 5 levels or something. long term stuff that everyone will need. Maybe something for your house. little convenience stuff. maybe learning speed. I saw a +2% learning skill. not really a big fan of meta-skills like that. have to put off something fun for something efficient. rather see as something you get at level 5 or something. otherwise I like the changes to the skill system.
another random idea is make the skills take 20% to train but have a quest to do to give back a 20%-50% discount on time spent. Like for cheffery I you have to get some eggs and salt and a frying pan. could make them as easy or hard as needed. or maybe it would be simpler if while training that skill doing related things would take off maybe a second per task performed.
Anyway love what your doing and keep up the good work. hopefully I can get my wife an invite soon lol. - don't you have to level up to get skill points?
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I had the skill working away in another tab while I continued playing. Didn't really bother me but didn't really feel I earned it either... I think it's lacking some extra limitation but then this might be because I haven't advanced past the skills with no requirements yet.
I don't mind the timer, it's just like war games I've played where it takes a little while for your barracks to build you a soldier or your mine to produce coal etc etc. , although I think I'd be a bit miffed if I had to wait more than half an hour for one.
Perhaps there could be a learning... what's the word, forum? Pool? Temple? A place in the world where you can go sit in a big room drinking knollij smoothies and chatting to skill gurus to increase the rate at which your skills are being learnt?
(My mind's away on knollij smoothies now, could you create some with the right enivronment? E.g. getting together in a mindmeld pod at the Lerrning temple with other users of the right skills and subsequently rapidly assigning all melders new skills related to their mix?) -
I really like the new system, although I agree that it seems to be a case of the longer you play then the more skills you get, rather than earning anything. I played last night for the full time, and racked up a huge number of skills just by starting a new one as soon as the last had finished.
I have to say that I disagree with the comments that you end up sitting around bored waiting for your skill to start. There are enough quests to keep you occupied, and when you aren't doing quests there is nothing to stop you going around gaining XP through harvesting/watering or mining/creating/cooking. If I'm honest, I would prefer it if the higher skills had a more significant level restriction on them. I understand that when you're doing a quick test that is limiting, but in the few hours last night I was able to get to Level 8, and yet even the most difficult skills had either no level restriction, or required you to be Level 3. I wouldn't complain if, for instance, the higher level Alchemy skills needed you to be Level 10 or 15. That way you are forced to work to achieve them. -
Lolzerz: you don't have to level to get skill points any more (that was part of the larger mechanic change here).
Tarod: levels still do determine your max energy/mood and a few things have level-based restrictions on them (this will likely continue). And, we can get your wife an account: send me an email at stewart@tinyspeck.com (we should really build the thing to let existing testers send invites soon).
Schmoo: I like the temple idea, for sure. Maybe that's an upgrade path for shrines?
TGDT: when we get to testing for longer stretches we will definitely start tweaking the restrictions and rate of leveling will. Right now it is quite fast and also quite "sparse" (in the sense that there are only a few small milestones between each significant bump in ability and not much in the way of major decisions you have to make as a player to advance). For beta we are aiming toward something much "denser" (which means slower too; or at least less accelerated). - oh wow but it still says use a new skill point when you level... or i think it does
- Lolzerz: they fixed it halfway through the test i believe.
- ohhhh ok no wonder i left early
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My 2 cents is a week late -- does that mean I owe interest?
The timer thing was slightly disconcerting at first, as it felt fairly arbitrary and disconnected from the game. I was slightly afeared of the 'waiting around for something to do' syndrome, but that never actually ended up a problem.
I'm a huge sucker for narrative content, and I'm sure the devs are already on this, but if there is some backstory in the game connected to how we acquire our skills, I think that'll make all the difference. After all, it only makes sense that it takes time to learn how to do something, so I think the real question here in the context of the game is Why?
Ideally, I would love it if the whole process of considering, choosing and acquiring a skill eventually takes place completely in-game. Like Schmoo's Temple o' Larnin' idea, or maybe you get a mail-order catalog from the gods that allows you to order the Seeds of Knowledge which grow into your skills or whatever. Or perhaps instead of a "skill tree" you get your own Skill Tree in the Forest of Wisdom... ok, I'm getting a bit carried away here, but either way, I think with a good Why, the timer-based skill acquisition could fit quite well with the spirit of the game. - Perhaps the existing temples could be used for learning skills where each giant is in charge of a certain skill?
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i like the timer better than the old system, but i think i'd prefer a system like the one Bluto mentions.
the one where you can always mine, but the more you mine the better you get at it.
why not just drop XP and timers and go with mining points, cooking points, kinship and gardening points acquired through performing the respective skills? - tho personally i don't really mind the timers at all.