Topic
Olive Oil? Or, is there a list of recipes?
Can someone please tell me how one would go about making olive oil? Am I to find olives somewhere? Or purchase it?
Also, is there any sort of list of recipes that anyone knows of?
Thanks in advance for your help. :)
Replies
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you can check the encyclopedia
alpha.glitch.com/encyclopedia - Thank you so much!!
- You can buy olive oil — from some of the grocery vendors, I think.
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isn't the encyclopedia sort of useless?
it just lists the item, but it doesn't give any useful information about it. -
"it just lists the item, but it doesn't give any useful information about it."
apparently if it gave useful information, that would "spoil the game" for some people who find it challenging rather than annoying to have to buy a spice mill in order to find out how salt is made : \ - The main issue right now is that they don't list what the tools do. On the spice mill entry it should list the spices it makes. It won't change anything in game with people asking how to get the item but then you can just tell them to look it up in the encyclopedia. Looking at salt can say "Related entry: Spice Mill" or something along those lines.
- It would be a shame to just outright say "if you want X then do Y" in the salt entry, for example, but a bit of extra guidance wouldn't hurt.
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"On the spice mill entry it should list the spices it makes."
that barely addresses the issue. then the "game" becomes "incomplete encyclopedia navigation" .. what's wrong with "if you want X then do Y" when it comes to the basic building blocks of the game?
if glitch wants puzzles and mysteries and things to figure out [which it already does] then have those .. but there's no reason such puzzles have to be tied to basic item creation. or even advanced item creation.
..and listing how to make salt under the spice mill but not salt is pretty much just as confusing as it currently is. instead of having to randomly buy a spice mill the players have to randomly stumble into it on the encyclopedia.. at what point do we drop the pretense that this is either fun or a challenge when really all it is is an annoyance? -
If newbies don't bother to figure out the basics then they will certainly have nothing to do later in the game. Leveling up/grinding shouldn't be the main focus of the game when you are just starting (or not at all for the entire game).
When I started I just went along doing whatever I was and sometimes I would do the quests just because they coincided with what I was doing. As I learned on my own the game got more exciting and fun to play.
It's actually pretty straightforward, there are just some things that don't immediately click. Even though you have, for example, used the spice mill 20 times before you forget that there are certain items that can be made there. That makes it even more exciting when you finally reeducate yourself. -
"If newbies don't bother to figure out the basics then they will certainly have nothing to do later in the game."
that's what a thorough encyclopedia does. it helps new players figure out the game in the best, easiest way possible.
"Leveling up/grinding shouldn't be the main focus of the game when you are just starting"
why would grinding be the focus? i imagine it would be as it is now making one off items here and there to satisfy quests and exploring the game world in order to find the vendors and trees and rocks you need to make those items.
"It's actually pretty straightforward"
20 bazillion new players asking where they can buy salt or how to make it says that it isn't. if glitch is only for players with the OCD to pull every single lever in order to do the most basic things in the game, it isn't going to be for very many people. - Those 20 bazillion new players won't add anything to the game if they can't figure out where to get salt. Being unable to figure it out means they didn't bother trying to figure it out.
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"Those 20 bazillion new players won't add anything to the game if they can't figure out where to get salt. Being unable to figure it out means they didn't bother trying to figure it out."
that's an awfully elitist attitude. not all players like puzzle based play. this does not mean that they have nothing to offer to a game that isn't even primarily puzzle based. of course they have things to offer to the game. - All I saw today was people harvesting without watering or petting the trees. Dead trees everywhere. Those are the people that don't bother to figure out where salt comes from; they just ask someone, in every related situation.
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i mean take olive oil .. there's absolutely no indication that it is something you can't make and have to buy. short of putting that information in the "info" entry for the item, the only way to figure that out is to visit every vendor type in the game and click on every single item they have and then also try every single cooking tool in the game to deduce that buying it is the only way to get it.
to me, that sounds alienating and boring as hell. it appeals to a specific personality type that likes pulling *every* lever and pushing *every* button of a game, but i'm not sure it appeals even to most people. historically games have almost strictly appealed to such personalities. can't we get beyond that and understand that other people with different personalities can have "something to offer" in a game? -
Some people want to figure things out for themselves and others want to read up on how to do everything and then grind through it. You can consider pretty much any game like this a "grinding" game. The strategy is simply how to do it most efficiently. The encyclopedia should tell where every item can be found, how it can be created, what it can be used for, it's cost to buy and sell from vendors, and anything else anyone might want to know about it. It should be full of knowledge, hence the name 'encyclopedia.' People who want to do things on their own, can, and people who want to look it up rather than running in circles looking for it should be able to do that as well.
Have you played WoW? Do you realize the massive wikis full of information that exist about every item and recipe and location and quest and enemy in that game? Dont worry, once Glitch goes public the wikis will exist whether they are Glitch supported or not. -
"Some people want to figure things out for themselves and others want to read up on how to do everything and then grind through it."
and it is totally possible to satisfy both kinds of players, even the players who don't want in-game help in figuring things out can have actual puzzles with no in-game information supporting them elsewhere in the game.
.. but it is absolute folly to make such puzzles* the very basis of crafting in a crafting based game.
*i hesitate to call them "puzzles" when really they are "pull every lever" to solve issues that are less about intelligence and problem solving than just clicking everything in sight. -
" *i hesitate to call them "puzzles" when really they are "pull every lever" to solve issues that are less about intelligence and problem solving than just clicking everything in sight. "
Agreed.
The point of my post was in favour of an encyclopedia full of ALL the details. Those who don't want to read it don't have to. And as I said, once it's public, the wikis will emerge.
"If you build it, they will come." -
except a 3rd party wiki disproportionately aids game-savvy, veteran players over casual, new players.
it reinforces an unhealthy relationship between the "savvy" and "un-savvy" player.. and reinforces the false idea that "un-savvy" players have nothing to offer, when really the only reason they seemingly have nothing to offer is because the environment is almost purposefully built to exclude them. - Considering that the game seems to be moving towards a social game, disadvantages won't be a big deal and short-lived in the long range view.
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"the only way to figure that out is to visit every vendor type in the game "
Well, yeah!
I love the way you arrive in this weird world and have to figure out what's where and what does what. Isn't that the whole point? I see newbies asking for every basic info and people just telling them straight out and I wonder how they can enjoy this game. Isn't it about discovery? Isn't it more fun to realize - hey, I bet flour comes from grain, or hmmmm, didn't I see a bean seasoner at some point? Being handed every recipe and clear directions to do everything doesn't sound like much of a game to me. -
"except a 3rd party wiki disproportionately aids game-savvy, veteran players over casual, new players.
it reinforces an unhealthy relationship between the "savvy" and "un-savvy" player.. and reinforces the false idea that "un-savvy" players have nothing to offer, when really the only reason they seemingly have nothing to offer is because the environment is almost purposefully built to exclude them. "
Uhh.. How do you figure? Given a savvy and un-savvy player both with access to a 3rd party wiki, the savvy player probably already knows a lot of what's in that wiki. A veteran knows a good deal from experience someone who simply plays a lot of games may find a lot of things very intuitive. A new gamer or someone new to the game can make very a very good reference of a third party wiki. I saved myself HOURS of wandering in circles looking for drops and stuff using external wikis for WoW. Now that I've gone through a dozen or so low level characters, I know where to go to get those things and what they're worth and what they do, I dont look at the reference material any more. There's not a lot of use for a reference if you're 'savvy.' It's the things I'm NOT savvy about that I want a reference for. Now that I know that a spice mill makes salt why would I bother looking it up? Vets build wikis for noobs. -
"Given a savvy and un-savvy player both with access to a 3rd party wiki"
the "given" is the thing, since the savvy player is going to be googling for the 3rd party wiki within the first hour of play and the un-savvy player won't.
i'm not talking about wiki versus non-wiki, i'm talking about in-game wiki versus 3rd party.
"I see newbies asking for every basic info and people just telling them straight out and I wonder how they can enjoy this game. Isn't it about discovery?'
since these newbies are enjoying the game anyway .. clearly not.
"Isn't it more fun to realize - hey, I bet flour comes from grain, or hmmmm, didn't I see a bean seasoner at some point?"
it isn't more fun for everyone necessarily... btw, lots of people have been confused that flour comes from grain .. out of a cutting board. that isn't intuitive at all. and besides, even if it was fun, that's fun for, what? the first play session. maybe. if it in't annoying.
if figuring out that flour comes from grain [and similar concepts] is "the whole point of the game" .. then the game has little staying power, because you've solved "the whole point" within the first couple of playing sessions. or you googled it and figured it out in hour 1.
helcat, you're level 28 .. you have 61 skills across every single discipline. you've figured out how to make every single item in the game. you've discovered everything there is, so if stuff like how to make flour is the point of the game, why on earth are you still playing? consider that there are things in the game more important than figuring out how to craft [fun-wise, not mechanics-wise]. -
A simple note in the encyclopedia to say for salt - you'll need a spice-grinder to make that - and cheese - made from butterfly butter by the way - would cut down on newbie questions.
I still maintain that the "grinding" that striatic so despises is a big part of the fun of glitch. I enjoy it in the same way that I enjoyed playing Farmville for a full year before I decided it was eating up too much of my time. I'll bet there will be a lot of players who will play Glitch like that. If the game is to be successful commercially it will need players like me to survive. And we won't all want to be told the best way to make a seasoned bean is to buy it.
As for the social side of the game I've yet to be convinced. Street-building en masse, barnacle scraping in tandem with others was fun the first time. The second or third time? It was tiresome. - I think that for someone who's new to a game it's interesting the first few times you try to work out a puzzle but after that it gets pretty annoying. The game should start to give you hints after you've tried something a few times, and the hints should become broader the more times you try it and then finally just tell you. That might be hard to implement but I think it would be the ideal solution for players who aren't 'veteran' game players or actually want to play the game and not spend hours looking up wiki sites and don't want to be asking dumb questions and wasting everyone's time asking the same questions every other newbie is asking. One of the worst things about any game is having to do repetitive actions with no progress - just banging your head against a wall. I don't think many people enjoy that.
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"the "given" is the thing, since the savvy player is going to be googling for the 3rd party wiki within the first hour of play and the un-savvy player won't."
- You're right about that but a MMO is a relatively small community. There's forums, there's world chat, there's groups, there's friends and there's random players. Word about the external wikis gets around fairly fast.
"i'm not talking about wiki versus non-wiki, i'm talking about in-game wiki versus 3rd party."
- Good then. I wasnt talking about in-game vs. 3rd party. My point was simply that i would like any resource I look at to be extremely detailed - to the point of being spoiler. If I didn't want spoiler, I wouldn't be looking, I would be wandering around trying to figure it out on my own. And that it doesn't really matter much what the in-game resource has because I believe the external resource is inevitable. -
One of the things I love about this game is how crazy all the item creation stuff is. If you want to keep the community friendly and helpful, then keeping the wiki spoiler-free is a must. Still one of the moments that really made this game great in my mind was when I asked in local chat "does anybody know how to season beans?" and a guy said "use a bean seasoner." I thought he was trolling me - that's such a silly response that I thought he MUST have been trolling me. But he wasn't.
Discovering all the goofy eccentricities of the game organically, through social interactions and through experimentation, is a really compelling reason to play. I (used to) play Kingdom of Loathing, and often new players with questions about quests/mechanics are fobbed off to the wiki when someone can't be bothered to answer their question properly.
If I knew how spinach worked ahead of time, or aging cheese, or milking butterflies, or the focusing orb, etc. etc. etc. then they wouldn't nearly have had the same impact as they did. This is a wonderful and wacky world, and there have been so many joyful moments of discovery that would have been spoiled for me so quickly if I'd just read a wiki. -
Yes, I agree completely, TS. I simply can't see what the appeal would be without that sense of discovery. But I guess not everyone finds entertainment in finding stuff out for themselves.
That said, I'm glad striatic compiled the list of element recipes, because trial and error on that scale would have driven me mad.
"As for the social side of the game I've yet to be convinced. Street-building en masse, barnacle scraping in tandem with others was fun the first time. The second or third time? It was tiresome."
I'm going to agree with this, too. Maybe it's my anti-authority streak but I also tend to resent the self-appointed project leaders who start telling everyone else what to do. That's probably just me, though.
Social-wise, my favorite thing is giving stupid presents to newbies and friends. I carried beer around just to hand out, and now that I can make loopy cocktails, I keep a stash on hand to give away. - They could hide hints in the encyclopedia and make you pay for them with favour.
- Or the encyclopedia could suggest you go to a shrine and ask the relevant giant for the hint.
- Why would people pay for hints when, even if the reference doesn't tell them, they can simply ask a friend?
- Maybe they're shy?
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"But I guess not everyone finds entertainment in finding stuff out for themselves."
helcat, you are misrepresenting my point. i enjoy finding things out for myself but finding things out by buying lots of items in a store or waiting for skills to finish cooking is in a different category. i'm not entertained by it because i know the game is boosting my ego with problems i might feel like i'm "figuring out", when really i'm just grinding and then buying stuff.
there are plenty of things in glitch to find out for yourself that an encyclopedia could never hope to express. they're all rather entertaining. and if those aren't enough, other puzzle elements can be added to the game.
"Maybe it's my anti-authority streak but I also tend to resent the self-appointed project leaders who start telling everyone else what to do."
calling out the quantity of items needed from the project base is not "telling people what to do". neither is asking if anyone is able to pick up a certain item from a particular location is bossing people around.
i think it is pretty safe to say that's your anti-authoritarian streak talking. there's a significant difference between sharing information by broadcasting project needs and telling people what to do and giving orders.
btw, you can't really be a "self-appointed" leader in glitch. unless other people think your plan is a good one and decide to go along with it, you ain't leading squat.