Topic
Glitch Handbook
UPDATED DEC. 14, 2010
6:30 P.M.
I'm sure many of you are aware of a upcoming "Glitch Wiki," in development by a non-tester. I want to know what you think of a "Glitch Handbook." The idea is that it would be a wiki, and more; and cover all the holes in the other wiki or other sites, guides, groups, and forums. Yesterday I spent a few hours on a very simple back-end and a little design, and I want to know what you think about it. I would give individual contributors their own passwords to get in. Here's a few previews.
Admin/Back-end:
i153.photobucket.com/albums...
i153.photobucket.com/albums...
A sample page:
i153.photobucket.com/albums...
Mechanics:
alpha.glitch.com/forum/gene...
On URLs
It may not seem like it, but URLs (permalinks) are a big issue in sites like this with a ton of pages. So, here's not what to do:
page.php?id=15235782315796
Here's what I did:
home/pages/%page_name%/
home/categories/%category_name%/
SEO will improve accordingly.
Note: if this violates the not yet posted NDA, I will take it down ASAP.
Replies
- Heck YES! If/when approved by a member of the Glitch team, I'd love to help fill this in (though I have absolutely no clue how to code stuff (I'd love it if you could post the basics :) )).
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I've set it up so you don't have to know anything major: really simple formatting mostly. The only PHP you have to enter in is where it says $title = "", you have to put in the page's title there. You can learn all you need to know here: www.w3schools.com/html/defa.... Go through everything under "HTML Basics" and that's all you need to know!
Note: have you had any experience with BB code? It's what forums use, like [b][/b]...I may look into implementing that. -
Thanks for that guide - I'll enjoy looking through that!
The [u][/u], [size=14][/size], [url=http://www.glitch.com/][/url] type stuff, yeah, I know that. Hehe ;) - I was getting a wiki set up -- I got it installed last night, but it still needs to be configured so that I can limit accounts and access strictly to alpha testers. So you can feel free to keep working on your handbook, if you'd like, or maybe there's a way that we can team up.
- I made mine from scratch - so they probably can't interface. And I wanted mine to be not exactly a Wiki; I want it to have advice, daily tips, news, etc in a blog sort of format...ish. And also the wiki features. Know what I mean?
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The thing I don't like about Wikis is the fact that they are so hard to navigate - everything seems so jumbled up & you lose track of pages.
I want a clear, concise way to easily flick through pages just about for example recipes that can be made with the Awesome Pot. On that page, you see which recipes you start off with. Scroll down and learn how to unlock more recipes - through skills & through an achievement. Which achievement? Oh that one. Easy. Pages that interlink with each other & the whole thing is dedicated to the (admittedly strange) way of Glitch thinking. Not just a general Wiki... -
@Herp Derp - Email whitelist! No content shown unless you're logged in, and an admin of the wiki will have to check usernames to make sure they're legit.
I would love to help out any way I could. Plenty of wiki/design experience under my belt. Let me know: drpfenderson@pinkonbrown.org
@Roxon - That looks like an awesome tool, but couldn't all of those things be fulfilled with a wiki? News, tips, advice, etc? I just don't like the idea of all the info being in one person's hands. Wikis have changed the way we collaborate and that information is shared. 1 admin != power of the hivemind. - @Bingobar: Roxon said "I would give individual contributors their own passwords to get in."...
- Indeed; it would be an invite-only edit wiki, made out of those I trust.
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I foresee mine as strictly a wiki to start out. Once the game launches to the public, maybe a separate Wordpress install for daily tips, news, etc.
@Bingobar - I'd love some help. I'll drop you an e-mail. -
this could use the Glitch API for Oauth and be linked to a glitch group of editors, using the group ranks as a key for editing permissions.
this would eliminate the need for handing out passwords, and people could discover how to contribute and volunteer directly from a glitch group.
..but the major upside is that you would then have an API derived database of editors. if you needed someone to write about a certain skill, for example, you could use the API to find an editor with a lot of experience using that skill and ask them to do it.
or, more blue sky, dynamically base editing permissions on knowledge. if i wanted to unlock the "master chef" page for editing, i'd have to learn master chef and get all the achievements. in a way, this would turn the wikibuilding into an extension of the game itself. -
or use the API to dynamically generate lists of pages to edit.
ask glitch to spit back a list of current achievements and create editable pages for all those achievements. so much of the structure of the game already exists in expressible for via the API, so much of the organizational hierarchy can be ported over directly and updated dynamically without requiring a lot of manual editing. would save a lot of time and ensure things don't get missed. -
although now that i think about it, a wiki is a pretty useless idea.
the game itself should articulate all the information that a wiki would hold, folded into the fabric of the game itself.
if players have or want to use a player-generated wiki ala KoL, i think Tiny Speck will have failed on some level.
so in the glitch strategy group we've done the following wiki-like things:
1] created an overall map of the world based on the sub-realms visible in the main glitch map. this was rendered obsolete within weeks
2] created a list of item vendors, their locations and inventories. this was rendered obsolete in weeks, except for the inventories part which will probably be impossible to update fast enough to keep up with in-game changes. i bet the in-game map will let you click on the vendor locations and get an inventory pop-up eventually anyway
3] created a list of "patron giants" and the skills they help you learn. this was made obsolete by glitch adding emblems to the skill requirement descriptions. it is now much faster to just figure out which giant is associated with what skill by hovering over the skill descriptions than by looking at an external list in a group or wiki
4] made screen-shots of all the building interiors so people could see what interior they were getting when buying a house. made obsolete when tiny speck released an internal document showing all this information
KoL needs an external wiki, mostly becauseit is made on the cheap and doesn't have a ton of salaried writers producing interal documents and an API expressing all in game information that can be displayed dynamically in a host of different ways. i'm not sure glitch is the sort of game that will need a wiki because it is quite clear that the developers are trying to make the game an encyclopedia of itself.
this is a good thing, as external wiki editors will never to be able to keep up with game development in the way an internal team of writers and developers can .. and to have all that information cooked into the game itself is far, far, FAR more useful than having it on a separate web site you need to tab between. -
Striatic, I've already thought of the uselessness of a wiki; but, as a player, I've found many things that are hard to keep track of. Besides, Glitch isn't going to tell you where to find everything, how to complete all the quests, what skills you should learn at start, etc. Yes, quite a lot of information can be found in the forums after much digging, and my site would serve to reduce clutter and give a fast, clear, concise way of finding information pertaining to Glitch.
On your API suggestion: that would take a lot of work, but hey, I have until "spring 2011," and I'm making good progress. Thanks. - I suspect participants will be encouraged officially to "explore" and "discover" recipes for things in the game, but sometimes a gal just needs to know how to make Mabon, toot sweet. At times like those, it's great to have a source of quick info available, and I'd much rather use a searchable wiki than try to find a recipe or a reference list in the disorganization that is the posts in a group or clutter up global chat with a "How do I make...?" query. It might become obsolete, but I'd welcome a wiki in the meantime.
- I was gonna say that! except about being a gal
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"to have all that information cooked into the game itself is far, far, FAR more useful than having it on a separate web site you need to tab between."
agreed, but how many times did people ask where vendors were and still have to be told to check the map? Those icons are great but kinda small too. I would still love a Glitch handbook of staff-crafted text and images that give tons of hints and pointers and still keep one in the game mentally. But it would also be nice to pull up said staff-crafted material with a search box in another tab or just have it handy during play.
I think a wiki is inevitable but I would like the Glitch site to be my first stop for info rather than an external site. I can't think of a better example of this than the images of humbabol, mabon, etc....they give you the recipe. What's hard is knowing about the Items page. - For the record: I would provide information not already given by Glitch. In the next few weeks I will update the first post with a changelog and some more information to get feedback from users.
- Can I just remind everybody that the staff is developing an encyclopedia (alpha.glitch.com/encyclopedia) that, well in development, will do much of what we are talking about here once it is finished, and that the reason it is hard to find is because it is not yet complete?
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Edward: Yes, I am aware of the encyclopedia. Here's an example of how it doesn't help: say a new user doesn't know how to plant. Well, the encyclopedia has the beans of each sort of tree; however, it doesn't tell you that you need a bean seasoner to make one. If they figure out they need a bean seasoner, well, where are they going to get the spices required? Now say they find some allspice. How do they know they need a spice mill to create the spices they need?
Just an example. - Well, I have to agree with that. If I had a nickel (heck, even a penny) for every time someone came on the help channel to ask how to make salt, I would be richer than Gates, Buffet, and Slim combined.
- The next time someone asked, all you'd have to do is copy & paste a link. ;)
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"Edward: Yes, I am aware of the encyclopedia. Here's an example of how it doesn't help: say a new user doesn't know how to plant. Well, the encyclopedia has the beans of each sort of tree; however, it doesn't tell you that you need a bean seasoner to make one."
i think if a player has to go to a third party website to figure out any of those particular things, tiny speck will have failed.
these are issues with the general intuitiveness of the game that will exclude a lot of people if an external wiki is needed or even helpful for navigating them.
here is what i mean by "glitch should be an encyclopedia of itself"...
every instance of the word "salt" in the game should be a link.
you click the link and a little "info card" about salt appears. that card would show how salt is made, the ingredients required and if it can be bought where to buy it and what the going rate for purchase is. it would also list all the instances of salt currently at auction and a button to buy the salt that way.
now tell me how a manually edited player created wiki could possibly compete with that.
and tell me why glitch shouldn't have a system like that, since it would undoubtedly help retain many, many new players by avoiding confusion. - ^^ That would be awesome!
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There is an info link on every item in the game, isn't there? Seems like the plan's afoot already...just not detailed enough yet.
So as a new player, I am assuming the Rock is going to have most of those links, snuggled into the verbiage for quests--as a new player given the task to make salt, I can't think of where else I would see the linked word. So that's the Rock's window open, then another for salt, unless the salt window opens in a new tab.
But what if you are wondering about some random thing that's not part of a quest? Like naming animals, once you run across a named critter? Help channel, yes, but I thought we were trying to avoid all that "superfluous" chatter (disclosure, I don't think it's superfluous).
Do you click on the critter's name? - Almost every popular online game has its own Wiki because where would the fun be in the developers telling the user all they need to know? A glitch handbook would serve as a place to go for quick reference or out of frustration. I mean, do you really think they're going to post every alchemical recipe? Every quest and how to complete it (even though those are fairly well explained)?
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Roxon, I am not against the idea of a wiki at all, I just don't want that to be the only place to get info on the game. Over time, there will be a lot of things like gameplaying strategies that won't make sense anywhere else BUT a wiki. But to get info on salt? I would much rather see that in the game.
I like the idea of accessing stats and info about salt by clicking on it, I just don't really want the Rock interface to be the main place to get to that link. I suppose the active search terms could also be included in chat, but I find that rather disruptive visually.
What if there were an obtainable object in the game that was a portable search thingummy? When you clicked on it to use it, basically a text search box would open up so you could input the term salt. Then rather than a tab opening up or another pop up box, the info would appear in a text bubble coming from you onscreen. It would be current info and a bit of permanent info on the item, like striatic described, but could it include a link to a encyclopedic entry on salt (in another tab)? I am always looking at my avatar anyway, so having that info show up there would be nice...for me and maybe for other players nearby.
Although it does remind me of a commercial for Bing.
It could be any kind of object, a Ouija board, a magic 8 ball, a monocle, a handheld telecommunications device equipped with front and back facing cameras and an augmented reality application. It could be a tricorder. It could be a Tiicorder! -
Could be the Glitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
:) - How about an in-game Library? You could go in, search for a volume on salt, and read something cute which would also give you hints and clues as to where the salt comes from. It's more fun in terms of gameplay- and if someone is too lazy or wants straightforward info, they'll go look in the wiki.
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I have some down-time, so I'll show how my "platform" is good.
Homepage, quick navigation:
i153.photobucket.com/albums...
i153.photobucket.com/albums...
A. Easy-to-use breadcrumb navigation
B. Simple category overview
Comprehensive page interlinking:
i153.photobucket.com/albums...
On the topic of page interlinking, not only have I added BB Code into my editor but also some special methods that will make it easier for writers; for instance, using ::pgurl:{page_name} returns the path of the page for easy linking. Even easier, ::pglink:{page_name} will insert a link to that page. A wiki, but simpler, nicer-looking, and easily styled later on. Nifty, eh?
Note: the categories are for testing only. -
Uh oh. There's a storm coming.
As I understand this, it sounds like you're planning to give members of this site access to change the raw PHP files. I might just be misinterpreting something, but if that's accurate... no, no, no, no, no.
Arbitrary users can not in any way be trusted with PHP access, even if they are people that you know in-game. PHP isn't just simple templating; it can access anything on the machine that you can, both with standard APIs and via direct command line access. Someone with PHP access could do absolutely anything to your server within minutes.
If you want to make it as easy as possible for the entire site to be compromised and removed from your control, this is the way.
I like the thought behind it, though :) Probably should be implemented using a bit more formal of a structure, e.g. an actual formulas database table with actual red, green, blue, sparkly columns. It'd make it easier for the end user once you're done, easier to manage in the long run, and more secure by far.
Anyway. Best of luck, but please, please, please look into security. Protip: there are a number of high-quality sites that demonstrate how to hack. Knowing how to take down websites is the best way to ensure that yours is not taken down by someone else. - Aha. Reading back at the top again, I think this is clicking a bit better in my mind now. It'd still be a somewhat exclusive group of contributors with this sort of access, but it would still need to be very, very, very exclusive (did I mention "very"?) with lots and lots of trust involved before essentially giving your contributors full access to your server :/
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I'm not hosting, so that's ok; and there's already blockages in place by my webhost that prevent almost anything except writing and reading files on the serves. Chmod, everything for the most part, is locked.
And yes, it would be trusted people. That server would contain nothing but Glitch stuff, with probably little to no advertising...why would they want that? -
Reading and writing files is a huuuuuge deal, man. Especially when your entire app runs on, well, files.
For instance, it would be astoundingly simple for one angry person to delete all data in one go. If you're granting PHP access, then you'll need to be taking backups of everything on an extremely regular basis, and also be prepared to deal with any sort of back door he or she may have left in order to regain access after being removed.
I know that, in theory, there really shouldn't be any issue, but if someone does get mad, you don't want to give them quite that good of a weapon.
There are, of course, even more evil things to be done. Most people re-use the same password across various websites, so, even if passwords are hashed (pretty please say they're not stored in the clear! D:), one contributor could stick a snippet on the login page that records key presses and sends them back to his or her own private logs, then use that to log in to Glitch, e-mails, banks, etc. Yes, even though it's just a Glitch handbook, there is still sensitive information to be gathered, so the issue can't just be written off simply given the nature of the site.
But so long as there will only be, say 4 or 5 people in your contributing staff, whom you know very well and trust very much, then you'll hopefully be good to go :) Regardless, I'd still advise against giving other people such a big weapon without knowing them personally or having built up years or maybe some really intense months of trust. The internet is a scary place :/ - I'll start out with me, and later I may expand to other people as I come to trust them.
- Right-o :) Glad it's on your radar, then.
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wouldn't it be easier to, you know.. just not grant PHP access?
i mean, i've never seen a wiki that required it.
if you're having only 4 or 5 editors on a wiki .. is it really even a wiki any more? sounds more like just a website.
and why not just install some wiki software on the site and re-skin that? www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Medi... is free. - I've got a wiki set up and ready for content to be added. Just need some people to help out. I'll start a separate thread since I don't want to hijack this one.
- @striatic: Uh, it's not a wiki. That's the point.
