Topic
General feedback...
Okay, I've played for about an hour and have some general feedback.
(1) The art direction and writing are amazing. Really digging the look and feel of the game. The talking rock is great.
(2) Getting started is clear enough, I guess, but I'm really missing the point of the game. I've played MMOs for years and I've played various social games on FB and whatnot, but I must be totally missing the reason for leveling up, petting/milking/squeezing animals, etc. Is there some ultimate goal to this game, aside from gaining more XP or selling/auctioning stuff? I'm just not clear on what we're trying to accomplish.
(3) There doesn't seem to be much emphasis on socializing. I see the local chat for the "zone"/region I'm in on the right hand side, but I'm switching zones every 10 seconds running around so it's hard to start a conversation (or even figure out why I would.)
(4) Figuring out where I am is a little on the difficult side. I see the map, but I have a teleport icon on my rock dude that I can't click on. I got lost in some kind of dungeon (it was underground and had levels.. that's as far as I go for a comparison) for a good 10 minutes before I made my way back out. Not sure if there are quick routes to get back to "important" places like the vendor area (Ti street?) that I've had mentioned in a couple of quests.
(5) Figuring out where to go for certain quests is amazingly difficult. It took me a while to find any pigs for the first rasher quest, then finally I got to a street with 4 or 5 pigs roaming around. Then I was trying to find 5 dirt patches to tend to for another quest I got after learning a skill, and I literally ran around endlessly for a good 25 minutes trying to find ANY dirt patches... I found *one*.
(6) The platformer-like nature of the game and the Flash interface seem to lend themselves to overshooting on jumps constantly. I'm used to playing platformers but I find sometimes I lag out a bit and miss my jumps on a regular basis, especially on jumps where your arc is pretty high. Minor tweaks, I guess, but it would help in areas where you're doing a lot of jumping.
I guess maybe I'm just too used to .. err.. every other type of game I played in the past. I appreciate the art quality and visual diversity, and the esoteric nature of the game is fun. But I'm totally at a loss for why I would continue playing without some kind of obvious goal in mind... I'm sure improving the quest text and mapping/transport would help alleviate some of the more specific issues I listed above, but in general, I've spent the last half hour scratching my head going... "why? what am I doing here?"
Sorry for the ranty-ness. I think the developers and artists have done a killer job in implementing things, I'm just.. err.. not sure why I'd keep playing, heh. Guess that's contradictory, but if it's any consolation, it's probably the first time in recent memory that I've been so torn about my opinion on a game.
Cheers,
-nick
(@nickb on Twitter)
Replies
-
Hello, I'm a fellow player who started yesterday. ^^
1) I agree. ^^
2) What's the reason to level up in all the other MMORPGs anyway? You kill so you can level and you level so you can be kill until you beat everyone else on the server. XD
3) I think they're looking into ways to fix that, since there are already a lot of threads on the forums about it.
4) The teleport button requires you to get a skill before you can use it. As for where you are... it's especially confusing because you can't see out-of-region connections on the map. :(
5) It is difficult, and there have been a few threads requesting there to be icons to show us on the map where different resources are, but I personally (and a few other people) think that doing so would undermine the exploration aspects of the game. :/
6) That annoys me too.
Thanks for helping us help the devs! ^^ -
1) Yes, yes, yes. Such amazing art. I want prints.
2) There's a good thread about this to contribute to here: alpha.glitch.com/forum/gene...
3) Same as @Dryea
4) It's not as bad once you learn the way around. Although, it is sort of haphazard. But there are definitely some shortcuts. I suggest making a teleport in a central place. I did one a couple of streets from 2 vendors and 3 away from the caves.
5) I also feel that this would undermine the exploration/constant creation aspect. But you can ask around. That's how I found most everything. Near the end of the day there were so many plots empty. -
Another note about #5: the world isn't static, where there was a bubble tree one day may have a spice tree the next, since the bubble tree may have died (like... oh, 80% of the trees today because no one was caring for them) and replaced.
Sooo... ^^: -
To address #2 and #3, I think that we have yet to see some important features that will facilitate socializing and give "purpose." That being said there is nothing stopping you from being social. Why are you running around such that you can't stop to talk to people if you don't find a point to the game? I think a lot of people are awful busy doing nothing important. I think individuals have some responsibility in making something social. I challenge everyone to stop and have a conversation next testing round.
But, I have followed Stuart Butterfield (one of the founders, previously of Flickr and Ludicorp) for a long time and based on that history I think there is a lot that we have yet to see. He has some strong beliefs about human nature and how that can interplay with the internet as a medium. Here is a quote from a CNN interview from 2007 (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/01/17/global.office.flickr/index.html):
----
"I think there's a deep impulse in most humans to do creative stuff, whether that's music or art, photography or writing. Most people at some point in their life say they want to do something creative -- they want to be an actor, a director, a writer, a poet, a painter or whatever. Enabling and empowering that is a very powerful force in human nature and I think it's always been there.
When people talk about Web 2.0 it's this all-new, never-seen-before thing. If you think back to the 19th century, if you wanted to listen to a song you'd get the family together, go into the parlor and everybody would pick up their instruments and play a song.
Over the course of the 20th century that changed with the invention of radio, movies and television, so that when you wanted to listen to a song it wasn't something you made yourself; it was something you purchased and consumed. The idea of people making music or art or entertaining themselves is much older and I think more fundamental. A lot of the more creative outlets you see in Web 2.0 are a return to that more fundamental human nature."
----
So I think we will see things that will let us "make music" within the construct of the game. -
My little thought to your the colour of this world was.....Would it not be great if you could upload jpg's of your own work into the humble abode you built...Like in the Sim's game when you painted a pic! I love arte forms in every avenue of my life from indoor walls to garden hedges. Craftsmanship could become a social tool. Maybe a jam session room for new in game tunes.......etc,
I'd like to see a different style for the chat logues....Drives me crazy..words to the left of me...words to the right,and petra throwing the book at me like God himself..sometimes all at the same time..It had me wishing I could shut them all up for awhile........
Also,I like the lack of instant gratification that comes with the challenge of gradient learning within the quests.Sometimes you just have to apply yourself to actually move forward. Taking a few notes helps too. -
"That being said there is nothing stopping you from being social. Why are you running around such that you can't stop to talk to people if you don't find a point to the game? I think a lot of people are awful busy doing nothing important. I think individuals have some responsibility in making something social. I challenge everyone to stop and have a conversation next testing round."
i highly, highly disagree.
you mention GNE and flickr. i never had to *force* myself to be social in either of those. in glitch i do. something is wrong.
the quest framework creates a rigid framework, or at least a rigidly presented framework, for how the game should be played. the framework isn't a social one, so people don't socialize. players aren't to blame for this.
people keep running around, i think, to see if the game becomes more interesting somewhere over the horizon. -
This is true, there is no connection with Quests and other players. The follow option has no advantage for Quest fulfillment and I've never used the "invite to party" because I saw no reason for it.
People comment on flickr because they like something creative that someone else made. They make groups to share common interests about different areas of photography. Notice, without the user content medium, the community would be nil.
There is not much player creativity in the game, so I have no initiative to talk to one player or the other. I don't know what items they have, so why would I initiate trade with them? (Sidebar: I think auction and trade could be consolidated to selling things out of your house with little signs outside of what you have or something)
I understand that the game is in it's infancy, however it was the promise of a social game that drew me to Glitch. Otherwise, I could simply play little BIG planet :)
Other than this, the game is a lot of fun! Despite the lack of direction, I couldn't stop playing for some reason... -
Socializing has been a big part of my game for quite awhile. The exception would be reset days, but socializing shouldn't play a significant role in Day One or maybe even Week One. Icebreakers are exercises in pain. Better to let the social game increase at a natural, slower pace (XP leaderboarders excepted).
Glitch: Just Like Real Life! -
"Despite the lack of direction, I couldn't stop playing for some reason..."
paging doctor pavlov : [ - I ask people when they are standing still if I can help them in anyway.....Only one person said yes...they needed some food fast...voila.....done......Sort of flat planed convo's .then someone im'd me to ask for help....I had to laugh cause I did not realize we common Glitchers could do this yet..So,I may have missed another tutorial somewhere,anywho's..we had a nice conversation...but still that's pretty flat planed too in my book.......I am looking forward though to the mention of community involved building of new areas in a future update that was mentioned on the blog.....I do hope to see a type of socialization that requires group activity for some events or worlds.At the same time I want to choose to partake or not....
-
striatic said, "people keep running around, i think, to see if the game becomes more interesting somewhere over the horizon," and I agree here. I know that I continue playing the game to see what interesting quest might pop up next or what new recipe may appear in some tool I'm using (and because I know the game is still evolving).
but a more social strategy would be pretty neat. social quests, for example - interactions that require engaging other players beyond just mooning or kissing them.
i was happy to find the big market on Market Street, but few to no people ever seem to be there. Most of the time, I find people at a vendor, and they are all busily buying things from that vendor (or dropping stuff on the ground). i sold some sammiches once to someone who cried out that they needed food, but as soon as that transaction was complete, they trotted off elsewhere.
i have one or two friends in the game, so i've chatted with them when i've seen them, but then aside from the "do you know where this is?" the chat feels disconnected from the game. Beyond that i do feel it's awkward to just start engaging with someone i don't know who is probably off doing some quest and so is focused on that rather than on socializing - what commonality might we have? that's why i think it key to include socializing within the game structure somehow, possibly as a quest. Like: host a party or barter with 5 different players or - i dunno - go build a whatever together.
the quests are engaging to a point, but now, I have a house, trees, a garden, some pigs/chickens/butterflies and a ton of tools and skills.. and currants. i haven't been anywhere close to croaking lately or been lost in a while, so at this stage everything does feel like a grind. the game feels a bit like work - lots of tasks to perform to keep everything ok (food, drink, keep the pigs & trees happy) but not so much recreation or challenge, which is weird because it's a game (it's real life recreation doing... work). hopefully, there's more to come! -
I think the biggest barrier to socializing is the "this could be awkward" feeling. People often prefer that other people walk up to them first and talk, and if everyone just waits for the other person to talk, no one talks to each other and there goes social interactions.
Of course, this isn't helped much by people who just run around trying to complete tasks.
What we need is a system for rewarding people for having good, actual conversations with people. But somehow I feel that if it's not implemented well enough we'll be seeing chat spammers in the future just saying hi to everyone they see and nothing else. :/ - For #3, it might be helpful if there were an easier way to tell who was currently "here" in your zone at any time. Watching the scrolling list of "Feezul left, Jimbobble arrived" is confusing. So I start ignoring it. Maybe this is already on the to-do list: an optional pane that shows who's here now? It's something of an invitation to socialize.
-
1.) Totally! I really like the way objects move as well. I was super amused when I first started playing to see little colorful people running around the screen, hopping and jumping up on things.
2.) As another player mentioned in this post - games don't have much purpose in the first place but for amusement. I've really started focusing on the learning table, but I suppose once its maxed out I'll feel a little direction-less myself.
3.) This is a huge topic! I agree that it could use a little more in the social realm. I've heard mention of religions and shared guild property and these both seem like great avenues for social interaction. Maybe those groups can learn shared skills when members grow and congregate together. Quests might include getting a number of new people to join your religion or build a guild's treasury up to a certain point. There's a lot of potential in these areas and I think once the application goes live on facebook there will be many more avenues for people to interact around the game.
4.) I've been stuck in the caves too! From that I learned I don't really need to go to lx. The game does seem to take a lot of running around (unless you have teleportation abilities) but I think its a nice way to discover new places, items, and users.
5.) Totally with you on the dirt patch thing. I think its just one of those things that as a noob you have to discover. I had a friend from my guild help me when I needed to find certain things, so maybe chatting with players would come in handy with this step!
I'm pretty amazed at how smoothly the game runs already! Not too many *glitches* get in the way of enjoying the game. I can't wait to see what's to come! :) -
Continuation of @Lelu's idea:
I'd also like to see how long everyone has been in the area, in addition to their names. If they've been here for too short a time, they might just be passing by. - I love games that I can play for hours/days without purpose.
-
I love games that make me CRY when I'm deprived of them even when I don't actually do much in the game. :P
I should've spent my last few hours last night enjoying myself instead of moping. ._.
Oh well, lesson learned. A game's private alpha is a perfect environment for me to improve myself. ^^ -
"I think the biggest barrier to socializing is the "this could be awkward" feeling."
GNE wasn't like this at all - and my favorite part of that game was the socializing. My memory is terrible, forgive me, but I just can't remember why it seemed easier and more central to that game to interact with people. Were we all just asking each other what things did and how to find stuff? Surely it must have been more than that. (There was one player asking a million questions in the last test and I found it annoying rather than conducive to chat.) I just can't remember why GNE was so social. - It would be handy if you could just stick a placard in the ground saying things like "sauces for sale", "fancy a chat?", "need some xxx" etc. The placard would automatically disappear back into your pack if you move on. Perhaps that would encourage interaction?
-
^ i agree with that.
kind of like a status update of some kind. - Helcat, I wonder if the spirit of the times has changed since GNE. Blogs were still new and there was a cloud of cool bloggers who showed up at GNE from its inception. They set an initial tone to the play, a tone which maybe is unrecoverable?
- Wow, I love Bluto's idea - a customizable signpost outside your house if you are in need of something +1.
- Caterina said about GNE, "It was really just a context for socializing. You know, when people get together on Friday night for bridge, they just want to see each other. The game is just an excuse. It’s a framing device. You really just want to hang out and smoke cigars and gossip." That's what made me think having a great, diverse set of social toys will be a pretty big in Glitch. The last version of GNE wasn't nearly as social or benevolent as the original, although we still gravitated to socializing after a certain point.
- Tingly, my experience of how GNE changed over time was the same as yours. I'm not sure that magical lost beginning was in the wiring of the game.
-
Maybe they could let us put a second title or line above our names and set it to whatever we want.
What is GNE? -
I felt the same way. The first version of GNE was home.
Maybe not being distracted by several avatars jumping around made it so easy to chat a lot more with other players. (I'm not suggesting to eliminate avatars - don't get me wrong)
In lack of better words, GNE had a glow of imperfection that was very appealing to me. It left so much room for creativity. And yes, the game was just an excuse to hang out with friends.
Or maybe we just need more items that are less realistic. The Adoriball, the famous Marshmallow Dagger or dropping the Funk come to mind.
And an occasional "I have hidden another sheet of blue paper in a hub. Can you find it?" would be nice. - Dryea, GNE was an earlier game project made by Stoot Barfield plus others.
- I guess I missed later versions, which suggests it wasn't anywhere near as utopian as I thought because you bastards didn't tell me about it!
- About all you missed was a good case of carpal tunnel syndrome. I remember a blur of chickens, fruit picking and juicing. It was around when flickr live was in its latter days. They eventually brought back the original for 1 day with a hint that it would come back in some form, and now it has.
-
So GNE is the improbable future of Glitch?
Makes sense. Too bad the future already succumbed to disemprobablization. -
I've got just 2 words for you: sparkle powder.
@Dryea: a few bits of background which can't really explain anything:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_...
www.gnespy.com/museum/
flic.kr/p/9pY1Q -
" I remember a blur of chickens, fruit picking and juicing."
Me too! And I never got to play GNEden. ;-) -
@Dryea - GNE is Game Neverending. You can google "GNE museum" for more info. Some of the developers are part of this project as well - like Bees and stoot.
EDIT: Eleanor beat me. :P - @Dryea, this also explains why quite a few of us alpha-testers appear to know each other and spend insane amounts of time here: other than the fact that it's fun and intriguing, we've been waiting 6 years or more for this, and some of us have very long memories. :-)
- Interesting reading. So the only reason it "failed" was because they closed it down? ^^
- That's right, Dryea. Some little project called flickr popped up and stole all the dev's time and attention... ;-)
-
I wanna make a game nows! ^^
Or help make one at least. ._.