Topic
Some kid loose in Glitch!!
Some kid was being annoying on Glitch, and i thought it was weird, because adults usually know what is right. So i went up to him and asked his age, and guess what he said? 7!! I was going to report him, but he teleported somewhere, and left me agitated. What do I do? ( And what makes matters worse, i dont even remeber his name!
Replies
- Maybe TS can develop a "light" version of the game for tweens, fully moderated of course.
- Irresponsible behaviour to suggest violating the ToS is okay. No, it's not, because it puts TS at risk of legal actionand yes it is my business because it threatens the game I enjoy and fills the game with people who do not belong there and who, as jiva has admitted, are being allowed to play unsupervised. TS has said this is an adult game and those between 14 and 17 may only play with the permission of a parent or guardian.
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+1 Malcx
...and a hug to Jiva for being attacked so harshly out of nothing for just being open and honest.
I would not let my kids play this, but also mainly because of the chat. And also because of what I read here in the forums. And I normally read ToS quite carefully but I also did not know that this game has an age limit until somebody told me a few weeks ago. Now please throw stones at me.
Then again, I have the slight impression that everybody who gets outraged that innocent children play a game as innocent as Glitch (and yes, it is innocent; all of the sexual jokes I have seen are quite well concealed, there is absolutely no violence, and the game itself is actually quite constructive) should maybe wake up to reality and concentrate their energies and efforts to the real dangers out there in the WWW.
(And as far as I remember, stoot said repeatedly that this game is not meant for kids, despite what you could think at first glance. There's a difference here. Again: There is no nudity in Glitch and no violence. A lot of movies which are allowed for children from 12 years on are more "dangerous" than Glitch.) -
I'd just like to make a few small points:
1, the situation with my niece is being dealt with, partly because of the global chat in game and the discussions like this one and others on the forums would not be suitable for her. Mainly because of TS's terms she will not be playing.
2, I do not condone rule breaking and this rule does have very valid and solid reasons behind it. I and she would not like to be responsible for TS having any situation on their hands because she had been inappropriately approached or something happened. Now it won’t happen.
3, A created account does not mean a played account. There was no encouragement on my part for someone to break the rules, just like you, this sign up was completely of her own volition, prior to return to beta and I only knew when she told me.
4, The actual game could be made safe, but that would be up to TS to decide if they want to produce a locked down version.
5, I apologised as soon as I knew something was incorrect, and have agreed to do something about it. That should be enough information for any of you. As a minor I will not go in to any further details of my niece, her home situation, her access, or how she would be dealt with.
6, not one of you has a right to claim you can demand who plays glitch. It is entirely up to TS. You could ask, but laying down the law is not your job.
7, this is in no way condoning any rule breaking but again I would have done the same as her to join in at her age. I'm curious, and would have wanted to be part of something new, just like you do.
8, I was naive to mention her in forums. Still I’d rather be honest about things than hide a mistake.
9, now if you have any issues please feel free to contact me. I'm an adult and I'd like to think we can all be adults about this.
10, Thanks to TS for a lovely game, so in demand that we'll fight over it! -
It's not just about protecting TS' ass. It's not just that I don't want to play with children. It's that I want to protect *my* ass. I do not want to risk ramifications of accidentally saying something inappropriate to a child. Not only would I personally feel bad, despite it not being my fault, but I could also face serious legal consequences as well as consequences in my career depending on what was said. Having a ToS that requires players to be 14 or older, with parental permission for those 14-17, allows me the reasonable expectation that everyone I speak to or interact with is 14 or older. Personally I would like the game to be 18 and up just to really make sure we're all adults, but that's not my decision.
There are thousands of games and toys and websites and television shows and movies that cater to children. For once it's nice to have a place to play that is cute and quirky and charming and not overrun by elementary schoolers. - I would prefer children to some people that postet in this thread.
- Gotta love how people on these forums seem to love a good argument, the debate teams never been so popular
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+1 Liza Throttlebottom
+1 Sare -
+1 Sare
..and as a parent I'd just like to say I understand the temptation to let one's kids sign up for this game. Have you SEEN what the actual web game sites aimed at kids are like? Moshi Monsters, Bin Weevils, etc. Seriously, they are rubbish compared to Glitch. Their whole setup seems to be designed to turn kids into good little consumers and push them to scrounge as much money out of their parents as possible in order to access the available content. There's almost no educational value in them and the graphics suck.
I wish TinySpeck would set up a version of Glitch for kids because they are really attracted to it and it is more educuational / less commercial than the sites that are aimed at kids. Sadly I doubt it will ever happen... -
Don't forget about Neopets. Fun fact: it was originally intended for college kids until they realized they could make more money if they changed it and targeted it to kids. Let's hope TS doesn't one day end up going in the same direction.
Then they'd have to replace Hell with fluffy cloudy unicorn land, purple flowers with lollipops, splanking with flower petal scattering and cubimals would become Pokemon-style familiars that you could dress up. On second thought, that would be cool... - I would probably buy a set of plush cubimals. *geeks out* I must hide my wallet.
- I want a fluffy cloudy unicorn land. :( Why you have to get my hopes up like that, Vera Mars? :P
- Karibean, I'm not sure what kinds of things you're saying in glitch that would have legal/career ramifications if they were said to a child. Maybe I lack imagination, but I can't think of anything that wouldn't constitute harassment and a violation of community guidelines regardless of audience. I'm fine with glitch being an adult space, but we needn't freak out at the very existence of children. If a 7-year-old was being obnoxious, the problem was obnoxious behavior, not "children loose in glitch" as though all children are like wild animals.
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Niqster:
There's nothing wrong with beer, but serving it to a minor is illegal, even if they lie to obtain it. Serving it to an adult is not.
There are many interactions that are illegal just because the other person is a minor. Sexual conversation is one of them. It's not necessarily 'harassment' if the other person is ok with it. The difference is that an adult can consent to these kinds of things. A minor cannot. - Webkinz is bad with consumerism, too. Buying a Webkinz doll gets you a code to unlock your account. But it is only active for so many months, and to reactivate it you need another code which you can only get by......buying another Webkinz doll! And my kids love playing on Webkinz. I haven't decided if Webkinz marketing is brilliiant or sleazy, or both.
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I was born in 1992 so I actually grew up as a kid using the the internet. Everything about this game appeals to kids. Even through chat with other players I have never encountered anything I would think inappropriate for a 12 year old (7 would definitely be pushing it).
"I never lied about my age on the internet because there was no internet back then" is a really stupid argument. Sometimes video game trailers have you enter your birthday. Does ANYONE (even people over 18) enter their birthday? You just put January 1st 1895 so you can watch the damn video. I think that whether or not a kid (especially as old as 12) is allowed to play this game should be completely up to their parents. I don't see anything wrong with creating an alt and letting your kids mess around with it. If they are younger you can watch them if you are worried about someone bullying them or something (like how everyone who's such a nazi here about the ToS bullied jiva).
If you are that concerned with breaking the ToS then don't do it yourself, but why the hell does it matter to you how anyone else raises their kids / plays this game? - I would upgrade my subscription if they opened happy fluffy cloudy unicorn land region. XD
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@Horakely
"I don't see anything wrong with creating an alt and letting your kids mess around with it." :)
Personally speaking, I'm not concerned about someone else son or daughter.
It's not my (or anybody else) duty to be babysitting other person's kid. Parents are the only responsable.
I don't have children my own and If I would have I wouldn't allow him or her to be playing this game without me being around. But it's not about children safety... Not at all (at least I don't think the game is "dangerous" for them). The age control it's rather about other players confort and fun, for not having to deal with kids who, sometimes, can be very annoying and inconsequent (stealing and spamming for example). ;)
I think that should exist a better age control (maybe as it is in SL, with IDs). And personally I think that +16 would be more adequate than +14. Kids with 16 years old and over have one understanding of responsibility completely different from kids with 14 years old.
Something should/could be done. Exactly what? Dunno... It's up to TS to think about that. ;) - I think that they don't have the right to ban anyone from the game based on the kind of people others want to be around. I'd be pretty offended if someone said "Well, I'd rather play with other men only, so TS should make it so women can't play this game." If it's appropriate for children but some people just don't want them here, well too bad.
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They have the right to ban any group as long as the ban is not based on criteria that are discriminatory under the law.
TS has already said they don't want people under 14 in the game. And they've already asked us to report any players who might be under 14 so they can investigate. They made it part of the Terms of Service, so you cannot start an account here unless you say you are older than 17, or unless your parents say you are between 14 and 17. They can ban you and they can ban anyone else who breaks that rule.
If you want to play a game where children are welcome, this is not the right one. -
@Horakely Might as well say "nanny nanny boo boo."
The "well too bad" attitude is one that, along with poor impulse control, limited experience and underdeveloped social skills, makes for good reasons to keep children out of a game like Glitch. Sure, some children are more mature than others, but setting an age guideline is a good proxy for lots of interpersonal skill development.
TS is entirely within its rights to restrict players as it chooses, within the limitations of the law. - My kids (7 and 11) want desperately to play this game. My husband and I let them watch us play, sometimes, but I would NEVER let a child play an MMO or any game where they would be interacting with strangers online. I mean, that just seems basic to me. It's not about innuendo or sheltering, it's about protecting kids from having interactions with adults who have no way of knowing they're talking to a kid. Or worse, predatory adults who DO find out they're talking to a kid, and take advantage of that. Children haven't developed the ability to discern right interactions from wrong and how to properly deal with interactions that seem wrong to them.
- chilirlw I agree with you completely. I think maybe everyone else was trying to say this? That is the only reason to make a game adult-only, not because you don't want to play around children.
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@Horakely: I don't see anything wrong with creating an alt and letting your kids mess around with it.
There is something wrong with it, because if the kids are under age 14, then it's against the ToS. And if you don't see it, then you didn't pay attention to the ToS when you signed up to play.
@KulKoba: It's up to TS to think about that.
They already have. No-one under age 14 is allowed to play. Ages 14 to 17 need parent's permission. It's a done deal.
That's the most important point that is being made by various posters here. It's not a question of if the kids are mature enough, it's not a question of how parents should be allowed to raise their kids. It's a question of abiding by the rules that everyone here has agreed to. It's pretty simple, really. -
@Flowerry Pott, I didn't know about that condition of parents permission for kids between 14 to 17. That's good. :)
Anyway I still think that a 14-year-old kid is too young and I underline what Pascale said.
When I said: It's up to TS to think about that. I mean about the control itself being more strict - and therefore more effective. - Does everyone here who uses iTunes claim to have read that ToS?
- Moved this thread to Off Topic, because the original discussion - of one potential child playing the game - is not of general concern. If you suspect someone underage is playing the game, report it through our help system and we will take whatever action is necessary. Glitch is not meant for players under the age of 14, from both a content perspective and due to the language we allow in the game.
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@Horakely--You may be offended if a game decided to restrict the player base to one gender (or race, or religion, or nationality)--I would be, too--but it is legal for them to do so. They're not the government, so most discrimination law does not apply to them (at least here in the US--I cannot speak to Canadian law). And every case of age discrimination that I know of has been upheld by the Supreme Court when it hasn't conflicted with another constitutional right.
You do not have a right to play Glitch. The creators of Glitch are allowed to establish whatever criteria they want for their players. And it doesn't matter if you read the ToS or not; if you sign up for Glitch, you're still bound by it. That's the beauty of contracts. -
Hey Jiva, you are cool, don´t let the trolls from the forum make you feel bad. I love this reply http://www.glitch.com/forum/offtopic/13451/page2/#reply-138156
MY NEPHEW IS 12 YEARS OLD AND HE PLAYS GLITCH CONSTANTLY, AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY OK WITH HIM AND HIS PARENTS.
They live in a South American country, so... now what? the internet police is going to crash through their windows and take their computers away?
Anyone who has ever worked for any kind of online service KNOWS that the Terms of Service terms allways have been a way for the companies to be able to tell in a court: "hey, we told them, they never listened, not our fault". That is how it works. I´m sure TS is very responsible and tries honestly to enforce this clause, but hey! the internet is full of people so there will be always someone breaking the Terms of Service in one way or another.
Best delusional statement in this thread: "I read all the terms of service. Allways. I work for IT" - OMG, wife and I LOLing so hard right now. -
As someone who has been interacting with strangers, sometimes adult strangers, on the internet since I was 9, I feel it's important for kids to develop the skills to understand social interaction on the internet from an early age. This protects them from predators, scams, and general internet social faux pas later in life. This doesn't mean I disagree with TS's decision to disallow children - it's their decision, and good for them legally, and probably much better for us as a community. And I certainly can't question the decisions of parents who wish to control their young child's internet use, as it's quite an interesting world out there. But we all have to learn the Internet sooner or later. I learned sooner, and I feel like I'm a better person because of it. The idea of my internet usage being controlled is completely foreign to me, and as a result I've learned not to share my personal information, gained a sense of perspective about the world, and learned the answers to questions I couldn't ask anyone in real life.
I don't care about TS's age restriction decisions. I don't care about how somebody I don't know is parenting their children. I just feel a little shocked that people can get SO ANGRY about the idea that the Glitch harvesting spice trees next to them could POSSIBLY be a dirty breeder's stupid crotchfruit. Sure, report a kid if they don't have the sense to keep their age a secret. But I don't see a problem with a kid who plays Glitch, especially with his/her parents' permission, and never causes any trouble or bothers anyone. In my opinion, it's better than condemning them to the padded-helmet-consumerist-land of Neopets or the angry-stupid-hate-world of XBox Live, considering, you know, kids have minds and choices too. -
Hmm...
"Glitch is not meant for players under the age of 14, from both a content perspective and due to the language we allow in the game. "
So we did finally settle it. How 'bout that. -
If by "finally settle it" you meant "hey! someone agreed with my perpective" then yes, dear Mr.Dawgg, then is finally settled.
Finally TS is going to run a profile check on these horrible, horrible people, and then the internet police is going to close their accounts, seize their computers and throw them into correctional facilities. Phew! close call.
Now if you excuse me, I will continue to play the game with my niece and his friends. I think one of them is about 9yrs old. -
First of all I think some people here are mixing things. Open one account for kids under 14 is different from playing with kids under 14. And, obviously ToS can be ignored or subverted as long as you try it and as long as they don't put the age control more strict (so less the control = more ignored is the ToS).
@Effigy, Hi! :) As someone "has been interacting with strangers, sometimes adult strangers, on the internet since" early age (and on the beginning of the Internet which means that these new protections that people see nowadays didn't exist then). I kind of disagree with what you said in some points. First, I agree that this game has wiser contents than those games in Xbox etc, but this is not a school to teach, or a pedagogic game for teaching kids how to behave etc. This game was developed for people after some specific age (has a public target).
Second, maybe is not so important for some people, but I care about it and almost sure more players (probably you do too): to know what kind of approach you can have with certain player. This game has a chat. In "RL", I don't speak with a 10 year old kid, the same way and about the same subjects as i would with one teenager with 18, so why i would do it here? Problem is that here we don't have a way to know how old is the player unless he (honestly) tells you. Imagine yourself talking for instance about drugs, or sex, or any other subject as you would to someone over 18, and after find out later that in fact the other player, who you had been talking with, is 10. I personally wouldn't feel confortable in a situation like that.
Third thing and because of the second, it affects the game. As you know some kids are very inconsequent and egocentric, they don't mesure consequences well yet and they take this as a competitive game, ignoring the efforts and the enjoyment of other players. The result is that some problems with bad behavior occur sooner or later, some players are affected (unaware the trouble maker's age) and start to play more defensively, not trusting other players (or even suspecting, when stolen).
Therefore, I have nothing against kids playing angry birds or farmville, but because here I can't know the age of whom I am talking with, and because I prefer to have a good time playing, to feel good myself and to see others around me feeling the same way (because for me it is important that the whole community feels happy too), I would rather, for the reasons I mentioned before, not to have kids around disturbing the game harmony (and if they have to be, at least playing under some guidance, with someone older, the parents, aunts, etc). ;) - @Mikah. So you knowingly admit to niece/friends being younger than 14 yrs old? Are you not by that knowledge then breaking ToS as well?
- Dear Casombra Amberrose: I got the number of an excellent oculist that can help you out if you are experiencing problems with your reading.
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Dear Kul Koba: Those are very interesting arguments, I understood them and personally I can agree to most of them... as arguments.
In reality there is no way to mantain an age barrier effectivelly. Kids are going to play this game, no matter what. No. Matter. What.
I think is easyer for us, adults, to restrain ourselves and exert some control over our ingame chats, is more constructive that nag and complain about how the kids are ruining "our game".
And please, please, PUH-LEEEZE stop waiting and hoping that TS is going to act activelly against this matter, is just childish. They have more interesting things to do than act as the first company that is going to censor the whole internet.
You know, we should act like grownups. -
Dear Mikah
By your own statement you said, "Now if you excuse me, I will continue to play the game with my niece and his friends. I think one of them is about 9yrs old."
That is what I was going off of. So your rather sarcastic remark of me needing glasses has no merit. YOU yourself pointed out that you thought one is about 9 yrs old. - Dear Casombra Amberrose: Excellent use of the ctrl+c command, kudos to you, and the use of the ctrl+v was flawless.
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"I think is easyer for us, adults, to restrain ourselves and exert some control over our ingame chats, is more constructive that nag and complain about how the kids are ruining "our game"."
Luckily we don't have to restrain ourselves, because this isn't a game for children.
"If by "finally settle it" you meant "hey! someone agreed with my perpective" then yes, dear Mr.Dawgg, then is finally settled."
If by someone, you mean the staff who created and govern this game, then yes, "someone" agreed with his perspective. TS might not be able to run a profile check on everyone, but when kids come out and admit to being kids, or adults are letting kids play from their accounts, most of us are going to report it. And since TS can get into legal trouble over -14ers playing the game and they just plain don't want them here, I have this feeling they'll look into it. -
Dear Desdemona:
You forgot to quote this from me:
"In reality there is no way to mantain an age barrier effectivelly. Kids are going to play this game, no matter what. No. Matter. What."
You forgot to quote this too:
"I´m sure TS is very responsible and tries honestly to enforce this clause, but hey! the internet is full of people so there will be always someone breaking the Terms of Service in one way or another."
Aaaaand another one from this very same thread:
"Best delusional statement in this thread: "I read all the terms of service. Allways. I work for IT""
Of course you can report them, is your right and prerogative... if you really, really, really, REALLY want to make the Staff work nearly impossible to keep.
Ok, go on and fill a report EVERY . SINGLE . TIME you have THE IMPROBABLE AND NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE SUSPICION that someone you don´t even know MAY OR MAY NOT PROBABLY PERHAPS be a minor based only in something he said in the Global Chat (likely between the words LOL and NOOB) that MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE to be true (not making it up, is the very reason the OP started this thread).
Surely confronted with this magnificent heap of evidence the entire staff of Tiny Speck surely is going to jump into the Glitchpoles, get into the Glitchcave, hop into the Glitchmobile and start chasing those criminals... because hey! is not like they are completely redesigning the game from the very core right now, right?
Man, this thread is fun! -
Mikah, your points are all entirely absurd, so I'll let someone else tackle that if they so wish. All I'll say is that the staff isn't going to be slowed down from "redesigning the game from the very core" because of abuse reports because luckily, we have a support staff whose entire job involves addressing our various concerns.
I actually just came back to add a reply to this statement:
"First of all I think some people here are mixing things. Open one account for kids under 14 is different from playing with kids under 14."
It actually isn't different at all, as the ToS clearly states "If you are under 14 years of age, you are not authorized to use the Service, with or without registering." So no, if you're younger than 14, you have no business playing at all, whether on your own account, on an adult's account, with an adult's permission, with an actual adult, etc. You just don't get to play. -
Dear Desdemona:
Sorry you can´t reply to me properly, people normally gets confused when confronted with points of view that subverts their own and put them in risk of understand the arguments of others and have a change of mind. Is ok.
Let me simplify my point so you can chew on it: Kids under 14 are still going to registrer, TOS or not, no matter what. The day a 14 year old kid abides to a TOS without his parents pointing a gun to his head it will be the end of the internet and the world as we know it.
All adult sites have age check to register or browse content. Kids use those sites. Glitch will be no different. They will play.
Why I´m sure? because kids want to do everything a grown up does, booze, dance, party, check naked ppl, smoke, play that MMO and the big old etcetera. Is their nature. Don´t you remember being a kid?
Really fun thread. -
Rev. Desdemona,
This is about your reply to my statement. :)
Let me explain you why did I said that those are two different things (and they are):
I'll start quoting what Mikah just said, which is something I agree: "kids want to do everything a grown up does, booze, dance, party, check naked ppl, smoke, play that MMO and the big old etcetera. Is their nature. Don´t you remember being a kid?"
Have you ever entered in one arcade center under the permitted age? I did, and I played with the person older than me that was there all the time. I did nothing against the law and neither the person responsable (the one that legally and in fact payed). I remember to be the happiest kid ever, when for the first time i played Street Fighter 2 arcade version! :) Obviously someone inserted the coins for me.
I suppose that you are over the permitted age to drink alcohol. Haven't you drunk it before that age? Never, ever? Not even once one beer bought by your older friend?
For sure you know that is illegal to sell alcohol to the kids. But will a father or mother go to prison if against their will their kids decide to open and drink the wine bottles in the house?
Maybe you never had kids, but they are curious with all the kind of stuff. And easily they use their parents computer without permission. Therefore I think it's better not to create secrets or taboos.
I keep all what i said before. Just think that there's no reason to radicalize things. Showing them the game being there with them, once or twice isn't the same than opening them one account. -
Dear Kul Koba: ARCADES!!! :D
I was a master of Street Fighter 2, good times!
Also, we agree, pretty cool, uh? -
Sorry Mikah. I actually think it's cool for your family to play.
But I was referring to something else being settled... specifically in regards to 'language' use. - No problem Mr. Dawgg, is not easy to follow all the poo-poo that is being flung around here, we are cool.
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just wanted to note:
If you act responsible and like an adult, there is no trouble.
in Blanky's words:
Moved this thread to Off Topic, because the original discussion - of one potential child playing the game - is not of general concern. If you suspect someone underage is playing the game, report it through our help system and we will take whatever action is necessary. Glitch is not meant for players under the age of 14, from both a content perspective and due to the language we allow in the game.
see? It's only if you are suspected. if you act and play like an adult, no one can catch you. - Hmm...why don't we get a staff on this thread and see what they think about kids on glitch with adult supervision?
- ....Kronos, Staff did post with the official stance of kids on Glitch.
- Kronos, staff posted right here, and the ToS also states that children under 14 are not allowed to use the service "with or without registering" which presumably means they can't play with an adult or use an adult's account.