Topic
The Unofficial 'Shenanigans' thread.
I know this is against the grain of all the 'Love & Melancholy' posts, but someone has to say what I'm sure many are thinking. Maybe this is a toned down rage post, but I think it's just a voice of confusion like many are feeling.
So,
I'm supposed to believe that 'one day' you suddenly realized 'We're in the red!
There is no way this game can profit.'
You then had a meeting or series of meetings and decided to quit & do something else.
Ok...
Let me do this by the numbers, because I'm confused.
1. This is pay-for-play beta. Not exactly indicative of a proper audience, but whatever.
2. You don't advertise, or offer 'friend-ing' incentives for players to find more players--
other than that one... event. There are a handful of youtube videos about Glitch after all this time...
3. You don't seem to realize kickstarter exists. Some companies get millions. Some don't try.
4. You've already virtually shut down your parent website & given your employees their notice.
I'm not gonna tell you how to run your company, or pretend to know what your difficulties are- well, other than those dozens I and likely thousands of others have bug reported in detail- but that's not the point.
The point is you have created something wonderful, that thousands love.
You have changed their lives.
And we're not stupid.
I'm going to draw more than a little flak for this, which is fine- but anyone who doubts my sincerity or love of this game or community can check out my home street or groups and see what the measure of my character is. Not that it means anything. This isn't about me. This is about Glitch.
This is beta.
I'm not upset I'm going to lose all my stuff.
I'm was never unaware this game might not ever actually be released.
I understand all problems are not going to be solved tomorrow, or released to the public ever.
But I'm not stupid.
You've created something wonderful that so many people love- and I'm not doubting that you've hit some sort of impasse. I'm not saying that some 'magic' will make it all better tomorrow- in a month-- whatever.
What I'm saying is you've created a paradox.
In your love of your community you've
given back the money that could help save you
- which exactly sounds like a company in the red desperate to make it work...
started implementing future content releases
- which exactly sounds like a company that's been strapped for funds for a while...
considered the option of Open Source(?)
- which exactly sounds like a company with no control of it's assets...
I don't know what the heck is going on, but two things that are obvious are:
1. Something doesn't add up, and
2. You couldn't/wouldn't tell us.
I don't mind point 1 so much- like I said, I have no idea what's actually going on, but for such a wonderful community to be both loved and ignored as a resource for making things better? I just don't know.
Everyone else will tell you how awesome you did and how you shouldn't have any regrets.
I can't do that.
I've seen far too many stillborn MMOs.
Personally I'm not an advocate of 'pay-for-play' beta. I'm against it actually- I think it's a rubbish business model-- but even I would have ponied up some cash if I thought it would save this game.
And you never even asked.
So I'm calling 'shenanigans'.
I don't know what the truth is- how complicated it really is- but it's clearly not simple as money.
If it is, you guys would have to have a pretty incompetent accounting department to let it sneak up on you like this.
I do know your data model has more overhead than it needs, that you have a known flash memory leak and you need to implement instancing badly- all of which I bug reported-- but to just give up?
Ah well.
I still think your project and staff are awesome.
I just consider it a tragedy it all went so wrong.
You clearly have a lot of integrity, which is why I'm so damn confused.
But I guess all good things have to come to an end, right?
I'm not claiming to have answers- just unanswered questions.
I'm not claiming I'm entitled to those answers- but a 'we can't say due to an NDA' would go a long way.
It's not like it would change anything- it's just this game kind of felt like family.
Why stop trying your best now?
Anyone feel to add in, speculate or respond.
TL;DRs should actually read for once.
I'll call myself a whiner in advance so some of you don't waste your time. You're welcome.
Replies
-
Bio, I give you credit for voicing this, because I've been thinking the same thing as well since I learned the news. There is *something* else at play here that is more than "we are not making money" but I doubt we're going to learn anything.
Still, agree with you on all points. - Having funding does not equal continued growth in a product. The gaming industry is ever shifting. The audience for Glitch is not going to be there. They see they can't continue and had to pull the plug. I think they handled the shitty situation as well as they could. And I love the game and staff as much as every other player does. I'm sorry to see it go.
- My hope is that Glitch's lack of success doesn't make TS less willing to go out on a limb in the future.
- Props bio you said what I feel in a pretty clear way.
-
I suspect that while money played a role in this decision, there may have been other factors as well. There have been many, many threads complaining about game performance, and surely we all have experienced increasingly problems with lag and bugs in-game. While a funding stream is clearly important, so too are the technical aspects of the game, and it has felt (to me and to others) that TS and the devs, despite their best efforts, have been losing ground in terms of game performance.
That said, it would be nice if we could get a bit more detail about the sequence of events that led to this decision so we didn't have to speculate. -
If you read the announcement it is NOT that they are in the red (that was always expected while in beta). It is that with the current game environment and Flash issues, they do not see a way that they will ever make a profit. Pouring more money into a venture that will never make money is not a viable business option. Getting players, or Kickstart contributors or venture capitalists to pitch in a few bucks or a few millions bucks is only going to delay the inevitible. The gap is not funding while they finish development. The gap is that the game to too expensvie to run when stacked against the potential income.
I have not seen the TS business plan, but Stewart Butterfield is an experienced businessman who knows a few things about how start-ups must develop. He loves this game. I am certain this was one of the most difficult decisions he has ever made in his life.
I am not going to call you a whiner because you are expressing your views. But do not think for a minute that this project could be rescued with anything that did not violate the integrity of TS. If it was possible, we would not be facing the end of our little world. - Well said, Biofellis.
-
It is not shenanigans to give a public explanation outlining the major reasons behind a major business decision, even if some of the people hearing it consider themselves to deserve even more information.
For Glitch to survive, they need to recruit more paying players and to keep players happy. Recruiting a lot of new players would create angry players and bad press if the Flash/lag problems weren't solved. Meanwhile, the commitment of Adobe to keeping Flash viable in the future has been questioned by many different analysts. I love this game and I am sorry to see it vanish. I am confident that the talent and hard work of the TS team will earn them their deserved success in a soon-future venture. -
I have read the official announcement and the only thing I can wrap my head around, that makes sense to me, is that Flash is a dying programming language and the future of gaming/multiplayer gaming is Mobile.
Glitch as written couldn't be run on an iPad, for example, because it is written in Flash and iPad Apps don't support Flash - yes, there ARE ways around this, but they are officially frowned upon and you can't run a business where its assumed your customer is going to have to use a workaround that breaks their machine's ToS to use your product.
Yes, there are other mobile devices other than Apple products but let's be real here: Flash is not the future of mobile programming. As others have mentioned it would take a huge amount of energy & time to rewrite the game in a different programming language.
What does NOT make sense to me is the prediction that this game won't make money.
Let's look at this more closely:
1. There's very little internet presence for the game.
I found this game by a fluke. Very little advertising/marketing. Plus, it doesn't help that the game is named "Glitch" - I always thought that was a big mistake even before I started playing. That's like calling your game "Bug" or "Hack" - its going to confuse search engines and make finding you more difficult.
2. This game has been in CLOSED Beta for a long time.
How can you reasonably expect to attract a large audience when for the majority of your product's existence people couldn't even play it.
3. There was no big announcement for Open Beta.
Which was, to me, another big mistake. I'm assuming everyone who signed up during the Closed Beta, but didn't get an invitation, was sent one when the game shifted from Closed Beta to Open Beta - but even if they did - those potential players (potential customers) signed up in the previous year and may not even use the same email address anymore.
How can you get the word out that you're now accepting new players if you don't announce it?
There was no announcement on Twitter, or Facebook, that the Game was in Open Beta. There was also (see #1) NO press coverage - not even an interview in your local stay at home mother's run-from-home social gaming blog. Doesn't anyone on the staff have a friend who works for a media outlet that could have done a free interview? Or a blurb? Or a celebrity friend who could have tweeted:
"Love my Friend (DesignerName)'s new Game #playglitch."
The marketing/advertising budget didn't have to be huge. It didn't even need a big budget. But even if you're on the right track you're not going to get to the destination sitting still - a little (just a little) more effort would have gone a long way in the way of advertising.
4. This entire game was free to play.
Free to play games typically make money through microtransactions and through subscriptions which bestow upon the subscriber extra benefits. Subscriptions in Glitch offered no bonus worth subscribing for. The promise of "subscriber votes" was a very alluring and promising idea but was never actually implemented. If there had been more elections determining the future of the game's content I'm confident more people would have subscribed. Players feel invested in a game where they feel they have (even if only superficially) shaped that game's content and design. Player's that feel invested are more likely to pay, and are more likely to stay, and more likely to tell their friends to join.
"Hey Mary you totally have to check out this game, you see those Turtles? Those were my idea!"
There was also no "special area" reserved for subscribers and or content that could be unlocked with a subscription, aside from cosmetic upgrades. There could have and should have been special maps/zones that only subscribers could access to ensure a steady revenue stream.
For the above reasons, I cancelled my subscription to the game with the assumption that I could just buy more credits if I ever wanted to buy something...
5. Not enough incentive to buy Credits
The microtransactions were all 100% cosmetic. Now, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but what if you don't like decorating? I don't - I never bought a single thing for my Tower or House. I hate decorating. I'm bad at it. Plus, none of the styles available really appealed to me and I was holding out in case new styles I DID like were released in the future.
Same for the clothing: I didn't really see an outfit I liked. While I did have some (only 600) credits to spend, the only time I bought something was for my initial default character look and a Zilloween Costume (I started playing last week of September).
Other than that I was going to wait until something else I wanted came along.
I feel this could have been easily supplemented by putting animal clones in the store, or plant clones. For example: A Sheep that acts exactly like a pig but has a different graphic. You can buy the recipe to make Sheep season eggs for 500 credits or buy individual sheep for 50 credits (which will die, as all animals have a lifespan, so naturally most people would buy the recipe).
In Conclusion,
I don't feel the game really gave itself a chance to attract an audience since for over a year it wouldn't accept new players.
I don't feel the game gave itself a chance to make revenue since it didn't offer enough for its customers to buy. Credits were kind of like Itchy & Scratchy money.
I feel the real reason for the game's closure is because its programming language is not going to be viable in the very near future given the changing landscape of technology and the new ways in which people play casual and social games.
I'm very, very sad that Glitch is closing. I loved this game even though I only played it for a short time. I spammed the Ideas section of the forum repeatedly in hopes of making it better. I wanted very much for it to succeed. This game captured for me a feeling I hadn't felt in a very long time. It's difficult to pinpoint. It was similar to the feeling I had in 1997 when I started using the internet for the very first time. It was full of excitement and possibility. It was like being a teenager in a Geocities chatroom and I could still be anything I wanted when I grew up.
That feeling, if properly marketed, is worth way way way more than 500k a month.
Much Love to all of Tiny Speck & the friends I made here,
Godiva -
Thanks everyone. I was sure I wasn't the only one.
Kookabura, I read the announcement. I was speculating worst case- because normally if you have money & you know you have problems you try to fix them when you care- and I don't doubt TS cares. So- just more confusion.
The major Flash issue that they have has to do with large asset allocation & garbage collection. Flash doesn't handle this well natively, and you need to do extra stuff to fix it. They appear to have not. Instead you get the red 'You must reload' warning. symptoms of unfixed garbage collection is excessive memory use, slowdowns & long pauses. Sound familiar? I'm not in their code, so I could be wrong- but I highly doubt it.
The second major issue has to do with memory overhead- this is a graphics intensive game, and you can actually watch it render the same textures repeatedly, in heavy asset rooms-- which means they are being allocated individually multiple times, as opposed to 'instanced' and loading simultaneously for all like types. This is a clear indication of wasted memory overhead, and this too has not been fixed.
I can't say anything explicit about the traffic generated by their data model- just that I can assume because of the above that it's not as efficient as it could be- and can easily name a number of successful MMOs that have way more persistent & dynamic data packed into a larger area with more players! Cebarkul at it's worst is nothing compared to most other 3d MMOs on an average day. Just to start 3d objects at best use a few dozen times more texture space than 2d, and it only gets worse from there- especially in PVP games.
I have no idea why the failure of this game is 'inevitable'- but if so, then it is- who am I to argue? Apparently it has always been, then- but if not, I can't say where the line was crossed from 'we can make it better' to 'I guess we can't & shouldn't try anymore'. I would suspect you can't either.
I will say;
Viable businesses usually involve some advertising. Let's ignore that.
Viable businesses usually involve marketing incentives. Let's ignore that.
Viable businesses without those can still be profitable in certain niche markets--
(with the right business/client dynamic). We certainly won't go there.
Also, Flash is not dead- it's just 'dying'.
It will debatably be used for the next 5-10 years- just instead of people knowing it's already installed (as one of the few almost guaranteed & most popular plug-ins), people will have to actually install it manually to play this game (or whatever). Probably, eventually, 'Something else' will be 'standard'- but short of Windows 8 or 9 breaking it, people will keep using it for a reasonable business lifetime. So for now & the next few years at least it's still an option- it's not like Adobe has stopped hosting the current version, nor is it likely everyone will uninstall it soon because the whole internet just switched to something else all at once.
I'm sure Stewart Butterfield is awesome. This project did not go his way for whatever reason.
He is probably completely right about whatever factors lead to this decision.
My point is no one is telling us- and that's just the way it is & kinda messed up.
Neither of us knows what happened. Why TS decided what they did. We're going to be guessing till they tell us- more likely guessing forever because they wont- and a good game that everyone else thinks has even more potential dies in the balance.
Godiva- brilliant analysis. It specifies clearly much to lend to the debate of 'viability potential'. This is clearly not an issue where we can 'second guess' their conclusion & motives- just that there are sound reasons as to our confusion.
I appreciate greatly that everyone has been so reasonable in sharing their views. - I suspect it's simpler than all this. There are business articles mentioning that Tiny Speck failed to find a buyer for Glitch so apparently it was up for sale. I bet Tiny Speck's VC told them they had to sell Glitch or shut it down. Tiny Speck was pretty much hemorrhaging capital for three years and VC will only let companies do that for so long without a return before they pull the plug on a project.
- This was an interesting read: http://www.businessinsider.com/stewart-butterfield-tiny-speck-glitch-closing-2012-11
-
The odd thing is that Glitch never relaunched. Invites were closed for a very long time, and then silently reopened, but the relaunch never happened.
Glitch never acted like it was running out of time and money. It is tragic that Tiny Speck spent the summer working on "fun" things like new maps and artifacts instead of end-game content or experimenting with subscriber/funding models. How many customers would Glitch have attracted if it had relaunched right after the housing reset? Possibly not enough to be profitable, but possibly enough to support a smaller team for a year or so while they continued trying things. - I didn't want to invite friends to a Beta'd game, so I didn't. I've been waiting for ages, and I just talked to all my gaming friends who said, "yes, let me know when..." :-( I love you, but I'm frustrated and sad. Mostly sad.