Children younger than 14 in glitch.

The game is becoming rampant with little kids between the ages of 7 and 12 - They are even popping up in global chat!

As far as I know this game has a minimum age of 14 and 14-17 year olds need permission from their parents to make an account.

But I would like to know a couple things -

Are TS aware of this and are they are taking steps towards dealing with it?

Are TS intending to remove the age restrictions of Glitch?

Would it be worthwhile for us to report any one who is younger than 14? 

I think I might just report any one that is under 14 any way, because this game is not intended for them and its a clear violation of the ToS.

Posted 7 years ago by Potian Dragoon Subscriber! | Permalink


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  • Ha! Innuendo!

    --Me, taking a moment to be immature.
    Posted 7 years ago by SchWM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "Anyone who thinks it should be restricted to 18 must have no idea of what young teens do, see and think nowadays "

    Oh, I have a very good idea. Doesn't mean I'm going to act like everything they do is totally cool. I don't want to have to alter my behaviour for those teens when they come into a game I play. And if they come in, I do have to alter it.

    If I go into a place where teens are welcome, I'm going to hold back on the adult stuff because that's the right and respectful thing to do, and also I am going to be ready to help the kids in case of any trouble. If I go into a place that's adults only, I'm going to act like everyone is responsible for themselves.

    The main thing for me is those kids are strangers, and while I might guess that they're already quite mature and can handle everything adults can handle , I can't assume that, because I don't know them. 
    Posted 7 years ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • -shrug-  It's not like Glitch is the worst thing 8 year olds play. You see them playing things like Modern Warfare with adults who are actively and vocally getting high and others spouting all manner of vulgarity while playing what is essentially a murder simulator.

    Glitch on the other hand is a non-violent cutsie game with a bit of adult humor and innuendo with a player base of relatively friendly and kind hearted adults.

    Yes, kids probably shouldn't lie to play, but at the same time this is one of the most benign places I have seen on the net. I mean just log into any average chat room and listen to the sorts of things that are said.

    The only part of this game that I think is a bit to dicey for a small child is global chat. Kids really should stay clear of that and if they are smart and don't want to get banned then they will do so. The only time you see a kid getting into trouble is when they try to participate in global. Even then half the time its not an actual child but some mal-adjusted teen or adult who merely seems like they must be a child.
    Posted 7 years ago by Melting Sky Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Melting-- that's my feeling. But I'd apply it to Global as well. Lots of hateful nasty speech in a lot of chat rooms. Here, it's (comparatively quite) civil. I'd rather my kids were taught to be civil and "overly"-well-informed, all else being equal.*

    There's two lines of argument here: "Think of the Children". Personally, I think Melting gets to the heart of why that argument is weak.

    The other is: "Think of the poor adults, who have to put up with terrible kids, who beg and whine and can't understand". Given thatt we can block anyone in the game with four clicks, I'm less than swayed by that argument.

    A subset of that is: "Think of the poor adults, who'll have to moderate their actions to not Mess Up Them Kids {tm}". Personally, I think it's the parent's job to worry about that. If the parents don't think this place will mess up their kids, I'm less than convinced that the entire community needs to be taking that on themselves.

    To be clear, I'm not (personally) arguing to change the TOS**-- it serves as a useful way to get rid of the actually whiny kids that are causing problems. I just wish the TOS outlawed the whiny immaturity, no matter the age of the person behind the keyboard. I realize that's a bit harder to actually implement :)

    I just wish people could step back and be a little less black and white about (this and many other) things...


    *to be clear, my kids do not play this, or any other on-line game.

    **But if we had a vote on it, I'd waste all my accumulated votes voting against the current age limit. :)
    Posted 7 years ago by SchWM Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It occurs to me that a big reason Tiny Speck might be using age restrictions is to protect themselves from possible lawsuits, since some irresponsible person somewhere is at some point bound to attempt one on the grounds of "corrupting children". If they haven't already. There are people who are that dim.
    Posted 7 years ago by Flowerry Pott Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Captain Daisy wrote: I saw an age check verifier just recently -

    WIN! :D
    Posted 7 years ago by Rutger Subscriber! | Permalink
  • When you say hysterical nonsense like "murder simulator," I stop listening.
    Posted 7 years ago by Shogo_Yahagi Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I have to agree with those who are saying they don't want to play this game with children. I have other online games I play that are available to kids, and because of some experiences I don't permit them on my friend list. Generally I have found they are very immature, aggressive, demanding, and disrespectful. And yes, I had conversations to help educate them on why their behavior was not socially appropriate. But in the end, I am also afraid of being associated with young kids on the internet. It would be an easy thing for one of them to claim sexual harrassment, or something of that nature, and my reputation (and real life) could be greatly affected. No thanks.

    This game is awesome because we don't have to filter ourselves. Most of us are considerate, and very few of us are jerks. I'd much rather know that the world I'm playing in is primarily composed of adults who generally live adult lives and can have adult conversations than be surrounded by kids. It ruins the whole feel of the game. 

    I mean, think about when you see someone's Facebook profile and they're very obviously a kid. Kids are on Facebook, posing in photos like how your adult friends pose in photos, trying to fit in and be adults. Kids are also on Twitter, and Instagram, and every other social network that's hit the mainstream. If you wince when you see a little kid on Facebook trying to pass as "sexy" or something like that, you get what I'm saying. It freaks me out and I don't want any association with it. There are a lot of reasons to keep a healthy age restriction in place. It makes the game better, safer (for everyone!), and more enjoyable. I have no problem with the kids who get parental permission to play, because clearly they are mature enough to respect the rules and have their parents on board. But I want to keep the rest of the kids out of this game.
    Posted 7 years ago by Pengwen Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm of the opinion that's it's not really worth discussing, since it's the internet and all. There's really no way for anyone to know how old anyone else is.

    Personally, I know that if I found Glitch at any time prior to my fourteenth birthday I would have played it. Yeah I'd have been breaking the rules, but at that age I can think of only a handful of people who would follow such rules. That assuming they looked into said rules enough to realize they were breaking them at all.

    Now, this might be presumptuous of me, but I'd like to think I would have blended in just fine. I probably would have kept to myself a lot more than I do now that I actually identify more with the other users, but I likely would not have been discovered.

    Point is that you're likely already playing with numerous children under fourteen, and, of your mere acquaintances, you likely don't know which ones are the adults and which are the children :) 

    (Now that I think about it, that's probably unnerving for some folks. Well, it is what it is!)
    Posted 7 years ago by Liza Throttlebottom Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Fun Fact:  I have gotten like 10 secrets for GlitchSecret that are about playing Glitch under the age of 14.  Almost as many secrets about that as the number of secrets I get about glitchen's general lack of hygiene. 
    Posted 7 years ago by rach.the.emobear Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It doesn't matter whether there are some here now or not.....they still should not be here. It doesnt matter that you think the content isnt harmful, there are reasons for the age limit....content first and foremost in the list of reasons.  Pengwen hit the nail on the head with this, and put it better than i could.
    Posted 7 years ago by Lyrical DejaVu Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Arietty : What I meant was a safe space, away from bullies and peer pressure. You don't actually have to do anything to provide a safe space, because the work has already been done. Here, they can be anonymous so no pre-exisiting bullies can find them. They can play alone if they want.

    And I don't know about you, but before I blocked the (exactly one) beggar I've come across that was anywhere but in Global, I told them exactly what was going on. That it was rude to ask to be handed something that can easily be earned. They can listen or not, but I can never ever be pestered by that person (probably a child yes, but I say that by seeing the other things they said, not their demanding tone) again. In other words, I don't have to put up with them. And being nearly universally ignored is pretty convincing to kids. Or so I've heard.

    @ Cefeida
    I can tell by your being concerned about self-censoring and changing how you act around teens that you probably don't know what kids get up to. I could tell a long story here, but the short version is, I live in a small town that is in a very religious area. A lot of kids go to church and have parents that are strict and do their best to keep an eye on them. A lot of kids also start smoking pot at about 10. Girls still in highschool frequently have babies (and not just at the end of highschool). It's not a rarity, it's pretty much normal here. I've known a 13 year old (8th grade) who was addicted to cocaine. He knew where to buy it and how to not get caught by anyone. This is not individual to this area, I went middle schools and high schools in varying areas and different provinces and different sizes of cities. The only part that changes is the pregnancy rate, and that has more to do with city schools here providing condoms to teens than anything else.
    I'm fairly certain that nothing you're doing will be considered a "bad influence" on an average 12 or 13 year old.
    As long as we can keep a mostly kind compassionate community, we're better than their school in terms of influencing them.

    @ Pengwen
    You don't have to worry, TS has said as recently as last week that they have no interest in removing or changing the age barrier. What you have now is what you will continue to have then.
    And on a related note, I think we can all say that Facebook is no longer a safe space, even for those a touch over 14. Glitch is much better. Personally, I feel better about kids sneaking on to Glitch than being on facebook with permission.

    @ Liza
    That's exactly how I feel. The only difference someone might have seen is that I would have sold rare items for way less than they were worth by not bothering to check their value, I would not have been able to play between the hours of 9am and 3pm, and I would not have been posting in this thread so that I could keep my secret hidden away ;)

    This much is clear: The rules are enforced when someone is open about their youth. It is impossible for any system to prove that someone is above 14 (14 year olds usually don't have ID or anything else like that, school IDs just give grade not date of birth, I had an 11 year old in my grade 11 physics class). Some kids slip through. Some are annoying and some are probably well-liked members of the community. Many are probably keeping to themselves to make sure they can continue playing their favorite game, and some are probably reading this thread to see what we think Kids Act Like, so they can make sure they don't act Like Kids. :D Hi there!
    Posted 7 years ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • +1 to Pengwen. You stated my thoughts exactly. 
    Posted 7 years ago by Fawnie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I love everyone's well thought out points for within Glitch and the wider Internet.

    TS, would you please weigh in with something official in this thread to guide us so we speak with one voice to our under 14 players.
    Posted 7 years ago by FlatEarther Subscriber! | Permalink
  • page one:

    • "Are TS intending to remove the age restrictions of Glitch?" Nope!
    •  Posted 2 days ago by stoot barfield | Permalink
    Posted 7 years ago by Kookaburra Subscriber! | Permalink
  • The problems I have with the younger kids isn't too much about the content of the game (although I can understand the argument), but that glitch consists of economic components and certain expected social behavior. Especially when it comes to trading/selling/buying, it becomes slightly frustrating and sometimes amusing when you know you're trading with a young one. Also, the begging and demanding and expectations to become millionaires overnight is really annoying.

    Next, I've been a bit bothered by global lately because of all the questions being asked. It's as though there's supposed to be a walkthrough available (there is I guess, but google is your friend) for every single thing. I haven't been playing very long, but I figured I'm expected to try things out myself first before I bombard global or live help. Asking opinions from global is alright, but expecting someone to hold your hand through every single part of the game is a bit ridiculous. Also, rook alerts: it's for alerts only, but some younger glitchen don't get the point.

    Last night I had someone demand why I was at his home street. I ended up wasting 30 minutes of my life telling him that home streets are public and anyone can visit. He then told me to not visit unless I was giving him something (what?) and tried to make me join a group where he was in charge and that if I don't obey his orders I'd be demoted/banished from the group. Perplexing. I mean, I don't exactly want to be involved with people like this...

    Anyway, it's not like I'm very mature or well-behaved even though I'm 22. :/ and I've made tons of errors since I first started playing 2.5 months ago and have been politely corrected, but some people throw a fuss when they're given friendly advice. This is just my 2 cents worth about some parts about young glitchen being a tad annoying. But there are also many young glitchen out there who are very nice and I'm happy to be playing with them.

    Sorry if I repeated anything! I read through all the posts but I'm also procrastinating in lecture and might have been thinking about environmental politics instead...
    Posted 7 years ago by tofuchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @tofuchan: What you described, the home street incident, sounds awfully similar to what I just read here - 
    (EDITED: replaced direct link to a certain group's discussion with a quote):

    "ok lets start im your leader any disobaying and you are dead 3 warnings then a demote"

    Posted 7 years ago by Maruchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Oh gosh! I wasn't trying to name people but I honestly did not think he was being serious @Maruchan...
    Posted 7 years ago by tofuchan Subscriber! | Permalink
  • It's true that some under-age kids engage in adult behaviors, but that doesn't mean that all of them do, and it definitely doesn't mean that their behavior is acceptable, or that adults should encourage it in any way.

    Last night, a ten year old announced her age in Global, and then said that she was creeped out by what she was reading there.  The conversation was about sex, and became more explicit after she made her presence known, because things were moving too quickly for everyone to read each line.  Once her age was reiterated, the topic changed abruptly.  In an all-adult channel, the conversation would've been fine; in a channel with a mix of children and adults, it was wildly inappropriate, regardless of what anyone thinks about modern kids.

    I agree that making the age requirement more prominent might be a double-edged sword, but most children I've encountered have seemed surprised to learn that the game is meant for adults, because "it looks like it's for kids."  Since there's no way to know about the adult content until you create an account, a parent watching a child's online activity would also have no idea without digging around in the TOS, which most people don't read.
    Posted 7 years ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yeah, it is bizarre to think that people actually read the ToS. I understood the game wasn't for people under 13 when I registered but I had no idea at 17 I wouldn't be allowed to register without my parents permission. Even if I did get my parents permission, they would have no idea what sort of content was in the game. 

    Tiny Speck needs to make the age restrictions clearer upon signup as well warn about what sort of content is in this game. And as long as kids are allowed in the game, I don't think sex is an appropriate topic. But even as an adult, I don't think sex is a really constructive issue to talk about, and if you want to discuss that, you can take that to Second Life or tumblr or whatever.

    And I'm getting a really ageist vibe that everyone who makes a mistake or does something stupid in this game must be young, and that's NOT ok. I bet you guys were probably all whining about ageism too when you were younger, so that's really weird. And if you don't want to help someone, ignore them or even block them and move on with your lives. It's that simple.
    Posted 7 years ago by Reirei Umezaki Subscriber! | Permalink
  • it's laughable to me that people think others a.) actually read the ToS, and/or b.) get parental permission to play. those are just necessary ass-covering guidelines. which i'm all for, but let's be real here.

    the fact is, there's really no way of knowing about anyone. i wish we could though, because when it comes to kids/teenagers, i'd rather steer clear. and it's not because i'm a creep or anything, it's just because it's not appropriate imo. years ago when my sister (11 years my junior) tried to friend me on myspace, i ignored it. there wasn't a ton of "adult content" on my page, but it's just not appropriate. i don't/wouldn't invite her to hang out amongst my friends and i IRL, so i wouldn't do it on the internet either.

    this game does make me somewhat uneasy in that respect, where i can't tell if certain people are just new to the game and/or very young by the way they talk and act. i don't mind accepting friend requests and of course offering help, but i also don't want to be followed around in game by a 12 year old. with no photos or other basic fields in profiles it's very hard to tell so i keep my interactions to a minimum. i was at a party in glitch once where we were playing charades, and i gave the clue "can be eaten or popped" for the word "cherry." it was all in good fun but i hadn't considered there could be kids there. i also don't think it's fair to say if i feel uneasy then i'm the one being the creep - on the contrary i think if you think it's appropriate to hang out and joke around with someone 10 or 20 or more  years younger than you, that gives me the bad chills. (depending on your age of course- 30 y/o's hanging out with 50 y/o's is obv different than 30 y/o's hanging out with 10 y/o's.)
    Posted 7 years ago by jerk nugget Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Basically everything is as it was

    If someone admits to being under 14 and you don't particularly like them report.

    If someone is just annoying block. 

    If you can't tell someone is under 14, what's the problem?

    Talk freely. If there is a hidden 8 year old it is their parents problem that they're here not yours. 

    Imagine you're at an adult* party...are you really going to self-censor just in case there's a little kid with his ear pressed against the wall listening?

    Glitch is that adult party!

    *Adult is not code for sex. Asslandia is not code for butt sex. Not everything that is an adult topic is about sex!
    Posted 7 years ago by M<3tra, obviously Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Last night, a ten year old announced her age in Global, and then said that she was creeped out by what she was reading there.  The conversation was about sex, and became more explicit after she made her presence known, because things were moving too quickly for everyone to read each line.  Once her age was reiterated, the topic changed abruptly.  In an all-adult channel, the conversation would've been fine; in a channel with a mix of children and adults, it was wildly inappropriate, regardless of what anyone thinks about modern kids.

    Well said, glum pudding.

    Just because kids are going to be exposed to inappropriate material for their age doesn't mean that TS or this game should participate in that exposure.   There exist tremendously mature 11 year olds, and there exist tremendously immature 17 year olds, but TS  had to draw the line somewhere, and TS picked 14.  (I believe that's the age specified by COPPA - 14 and up, it's okay to collect a person's identifying information; 13 and down, no way.)  

    I personally think that a freshman in high school, in general, isn't ready for the complex social mores that we fiercely debate, self-moderate, and work out in this game and its forums.   Is that ageist?  Possibly.   We've all met exceptions - as someone up thread mentioned, the exceptions are probably lurking and/or commenting on this thread - but when one makes rules for a userbase, one of necessity must make a rule for the mean, not either of the extremes.  I think the age restriction is smart, I'm glad it's going to be maintained, and I think that anyone who announces that they're under the age limit  in Global should be banned, gently,  with a full explanation as to why.
    Posted 7 years ago by Celeloriel Subscriber! | Permalink
  • yea! dont move outside of the US! theres scary stuffs out there...

    *Runs and hides

    and the kids drink lots of wine and own mules?

    its ok dont worry, im 30 now

    Gltich is the perfect place for a philosophical discussion of social norms.
    Posted 7 years ago by Herb Herbally Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I just posted about this under ideas -- but in short.

    In the USA, COPPA is a Federal act that requires that anything on the Internet that allows interaction with people under 14 *must* adhere to a strict set of regulations, to protect children from predators.

    COPPA could be used to shut TS down.  I am not joking.  I'm sure they have a lawyer that has told them, 'Sure, you're in Canada, but don't screw around with this."  As best as I know, Canada does not (yet) have a version of COPPA but they still take online child protection stuff very seriously.

    What most of you don't seem to get is that it's not about adult conversation, it's not about sexual innuendo, and it is not completely about sexual predators.  What it is about is that a minor is not legally able to consent to give a website personal information, even an email address.  Also, since Glitch "markets" itself for money -- you can buy subscriptions and tokens and things, that is also something that is age restricted by age of majority.  

    In short, Glitch is not for children because children don't have the legal right to make the decisions to be a player on Glitch.
    Posted 7 years ago by Moose J Finklestein Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @ Reirei

    The reason for those 17 and under having to give you permission is actually a legal one. The TOS and agreeing to it is considered a contract. A 17 year old is not legally entitled to sign a contract in Canada or the US (where TS is based), thus you are expected to have parental permission. This is actually true of every single website that follows the law properly and has anything you must agree to before signing up. (Or at least every one I've seen). Trust me, nobody really expects a 17 year old to ask parental permission to play. They just need you to click Yes to it because that's the rule. It's pretty much nobody's problem if you didn't, because they did their best, and you're underage and can't be held responsible for any kind of contract at all ;)

    And everyone else, yes, not every kid does things they shouldn't and not every kid is partaking in things that are far too mature for them. But yes, every kid in public school is exposed to someone their own age or close to it that is doing those things. My point wasn't just that they are already doing mature things, it's that even if they aren't, they are around people who are, so they've already got that influence, so we don't need to worry.
    If a 10 year old (or 20 or 30 year old for that matter) is uncomfortable with what the grownups are talking about in Global, they should first leave Global, then go do something they enjoy. Technically speaking, yes, the kid shouldn't be here, and now they probably won't be any more because they gave out their age. If it's not IMs or Local Chat, then the only solution to non-abusive comments that make you uncomfortable is to leave. For anyone. I leave Global all the time! They can get really annoying!
    Posted 7 years ago by Biohazard Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Moose -- Exactly.
    Posted 7 years ago by JohnaMarie Subscriber! | Permalink
  • After some of the recent goings-on, I'm way more worried about traumatizing some of our adult members here with suggestive/mature language and humor...
    Posted 7 years ago by Chazerei Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I think that the recent Asslandia brouhaha has show us that age isn't a great measure for telling how someone will feel about "adult" (sex) or "childish" (bums) topics. As long as they don't get TS in trouble with the law, I don't care if I'm talking to kids or not.

    (but fo'real guys sex is boring)
    Posted 7 years ago by Pyrrhocorax Subscriber! | Permalink
  • "but fo'real guys sex is boring" - Pyrrhocorax

    I don't think you're doing it right.....
    Posted 7 years ago by Goodnight Groddle Subscriber! | Permalink
  • What most of you don't seem to get is that it's not about adult conversation, it's not about sexual innuendo, and it is not completely about sexual predators.  What it is about is that a minor is not legally able to consent to give a website personal information, even an email address.  Also, since Glitch "markets" itself for money -- you can buy subscriptions and tokens and things, that is also something that is age restricted by age of majority.  

    In short, Glitch is not for children because children don't have the legal right to make the decisions to be a player on Glitch.

    Yes. This. Exactly. All the soul-searching about ethics and morals is irrelevant.
    Posted 7 years ago by ZenMonkey Subscriber! | Permalink
  • @Biohazard:
    "I can tell by your being concerned about self-censoring and changing how you act around teens that you probably don't know what kids get up to."

    No, you are misunderstanding completely here, confusing lack of acceptance for lack of awareness.

    Here's a very simple real life example. I work with kids. Eight year olds will come in to my workshops and start cursing. Now, I'm not surprised, or terribly shocked. However, that doesn't mean I'll give myself permission to curse around them because they already know those words.

    The analogy only goes so far- in Glitch, I am just a player, I am not in any way responsible for keeping it clean for the kids. But just as in real life, if I find myself among children, I will try not to be a bad influence, in online environments where I know there are children, I will try to do the same. It doesn't matter what those kids do and what other people have taught them- I feel a responsibility not to encourage the behaviour further. 

    It's really all in the post Glum wrote, with a bona fide Glitch example in it.

    With adults, it's a different story- everyone's responsible for themselves. I know people mature at different rates but the assumption that most teenagers are less mature than legal adults is not terribly far-fetched.
    Posted 7 years ago by Cefeida Subscriber! | Permalink
  • I'm only 13.... :D
    Posted 7 years ago by Misty Power Subscriber! | Permalink
  • That's not surprising!
    Posted 7 years ago by glum pudding Subscriber! | Permalink
  • We should PROBABLY not start this back up again, given how the other the other thread went ;-) just saying
    Posted 7 years ago by Pixieyelsraek Subscriber! | Permalink
  • Yes ;)
    Posted 7 years ago by Palindrome Subscriber! | Permalink
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