Topic
What is "adult"?
I think a lot of the discussions turn on different meanings of the word "adult". There is a lot of taking at cross-purposes because some people think of adult as "things that children should be protected from" and others think of it as "stuff that's interesting to adults".
IMO, Glitch shouldn't be limited by what children shouldn't be exposed to, but more importantly it should focus on what is worth the time of adults.
Replies
- Isn't that subjective either way?
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You are right in that the word can mean different things. But this needs to be taken a step further.
I think just about everybody who is using the word "adult" to describe their opinions on the matter is forgetting one thing. Opinions and impressions are subjective. They are voicing their opinions as if they are talking about facts that are shared and understood by everyone else playing the game, or by the culture at large. And it's just not true.
Reading through the threads, I can see very clearly that I am not the only one who just loves the new additions to the game. And yet, our voices are being outright ignored by those who are disappointed. We say, "Well, I like it," and they say, "it is bad." And by that phrasing they imply that we who like it like bad things. But that's not how the world of liking and disliking things works.
The only real metric here that will tell us whether these additions were a good choice on TS's part is game participation.
Words of warning are all fine and dandy, and an important function of the forums! But you can voice your opinions more effectively by expressing them as opinions. And, it also helps to acknowledge that you can see that there are those who don't share them.
Anyway, my last word on the matter is that in my opinion the sophomoric imagery and sounds of the dinosaurs mixed with the jarringly different graphics of Shim Shiri are an improvement to a game that espouses itself to be a product of imagination. Imagination isn't always pretty, nor does it have anything to do with what is "adult". It is something that you are only considered to have if you stretch it. And these things are definitely a stretch!
If they are fun, use them. If they are not, don't. If they are useless and unnecessary, that's, like, just your opinion, man! -
That's a pretty good opinion.
I don't even find it crude. I find it fantastical and yet literal.
But that rug really tied the room together. - You're right, Dude. That rug really tied the room together.
- all i know is that i suddenly could really go for a white russian right about now...
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There's a ton of words like this, and debates and discussions get hung up on them a lot. It's just amplified when you're online, particularly in the more international online communities, because words vary regionally, as well as having multiple definitions themselves. The "adult" thing isn't doing this all the time, but the way the word is bandied around on the forums makes me think that we'd be saved a lot of discussion if people say upfront if what they mean by adult is metaphorically dark, complicated in a way that wouldn't appeal to children, related to sex, drugs and/or language in a way that is inappropriate to children, or any other relevant use.
Less Wrong has a good post on the definition argument problem if anyone's interested. - Careful man, there's a beverage here.
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Carl, I think you may also be misinterpreting "juvenile" for "bad". I think the new style of art and humor is one that appeals predominantly to children. This doesn't make it bad. I've called it juvenile and that's exactly what I meant. But suggesting that something that a few adults like is juvenile makes those adults defensive and they assume that I'm just trying to call it bad in a round-about way. I suppose that makes me critical of their sophistication, but not the art.
Getting back to Janitch's original question, yes, I agree that people have used the word "adult" in both senses. But I think both apply to this game: No, it isn't appropriate for kids. Yes, it should be full of sophisticated, complex stuff that is interesting and compelling for adults. So, potty humor = appropriate for kids, but not interesting or compelling to most adults. Sexual double entendres = not appropriate for kids, interesting or funny to most adults.
However, there are also some adults here who think this game should "protect" them from any exposure to sexual references as well, so there's certainly no pleasing everyone. -
@CP: And yet, our voices are being outright ignored by those who are disappointed. We say, "Well, I like it," and they say, "it is bad."
Uh, that does actually cut both ways. Some of us say "We don't like it" and get back "No! It's hilarious!" which, believe it or not, is equally aggravating.
/absolutely MY last word, I promise >_>
And yeah, "adult" isn't a terribly useful descriptor, as I've had occasion to observe recently. *cough* But I don't know that "things that are worth the time of adults" is the right definition to work with, since adults differ quite a lot. When you come right down to it, playing Glitch is itself not worth our time by some standards, but we all seem to disagree with that one. Killing my avatar hundreds of times just to be able to say I did it? Not worth my time, but clearly worth it to others. Fox brushing? Not worth it for some people, but I enjoy it.
I think perhaps in the context of a game like this, the most useful and positive meaning of "adult" is "not watered down": not simplified and sanitized, not halfhearted or (yes, I may as well go there) half-assed. And while I still have no use for Shim Shiri, even I have to admit that it's adult in that sense. (Well, I still think the dino heads are kind of half-assed. But THERE ARE PLENTY OF ASSES UNDERNEATH! okay I'm done.) -
adult to me means everything you can do and know 18+ (drink, drugs, manners etc) but the term adult does NOT suggest or mean anything sexual at ALL. if something is sexual or sex related then it should state or be stated that they mean sex and not just adult.
There seems to be a lot of missed in translation going on lately in the forums, one post that comes to mind is this as the OP is saying that they wish there were more areas such as clubs and casinos etc with a more adult theme and most posters are talking about strip clubs and sex when the OP has not said anything about these kind of things. -
"So, potty humor = appropriate for kids, but not interesting or compelling to most adults."
You may not have noticed that you just made up out of thin air a crowd who agrees with you, Colette, but most adults sure did notice. -
" When you come right down to it, playing Glitch is itself not worth our time by some standards, but we all seem to disagree with that one. "
Indeed.
What Glitch being an 'adult' game means to me is that I do not have to be concerned with whether my behaviour, language, and the subject of the conversation, as well as the way I am discussing it, is appropriate for the company of children. And I'm not even talking about cursing and sex talk. If we think back to our childhood, I'm sure most of us can remember hearing many adult conversations that weren't vulgar, and yet were very difficult to understand, sometimes easy to misinterpret because of our youth and lack of life experience.
As for the content of the game, well, I think it's enjoyable for adults for the same reasons- instead of being carefully toned down to suit 'family friendly' standards, it can explore all sorts of areas. -
"but the term adult does NOT suggest or mean anything sexual at ALL."
No. To many people, it does suggest just that. Just because that's not where your brain immediately goes (and come on, when you hear "adult film" do you honestly jump straight to Schindler's List?) doesn't mean it's a completely weird, unprecedented assumption.
Which is *exactly* why it's not a particularly useful descriptor, and you're right: if people mean sex they should say sex, if they mean violence they should say violence, and so on. - Same discussion, different day.
- I suspect that in most posts the particular meaning of any words, including 'adult', was made perfectly clear by the context. The problem people generally have in online discussions about defining the exact meaning of any particular word is that by reducing the discussion to the perversity of people's sematical opinions they don't have to engage with the overal context of what is being said. Instead we can all get bogged down in spatting over who gets to define what adult means (and thus define which of us are adults and should be insulted). It's classic online debating technique and thus both crude and boring.
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maybe it's because I'm from the Antipodes (New Zealand to be precise), but many people from my culture find toilet humour to be just that, humourous... Perhaps it comes from our long standing association with Britain. Watch much british comedy and it's bound to come out sooner or later. And of course, there's the fact that the word 'shit' is not considered to be swearing or offensive language here.
Personally i love the new travel option, if people don't like it there's nothing stopping them from learning how to teleport or old-fashioned walking...
edit: slightly side-tracking from the main topic here, but both global and the forums have appeared to be over-run by nimbys - I dont care about the toilet humour, but the entrances to the former asslandia really wreck the scenery of the streets that they're on. I wish they could be a bit smaller but I guess thats the point. By the way, whats a nimby?
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Not In My Back Yard
Though I don't understand what Arietty means Arietty wrote: edit: slightly side-tracking from the main topic here, but both global and the forums have appeared to be over-run by nimbys -
I do agree that the entrances don't 'go' with the rest of the scenery
We already have dragon heads (caves with stalagmites and stalactites) which would make better entrances. Once inside the art style should still be unique to Moshi Moshi Oshilatis but the entrance should fit the street it is in - I think that's a great idea Rhonda. I am really in to nature and natural things so I guess I don't like unnatural things that stand out to much.
- When I first heard of these entrances I actually expected that one of them would be that dragon head up north, since most portals to other regions/streets are like that (like the Firozi -> Jal entrance). Still personally reserving judgement on the whole concept of Shim Shiri, because I don't care for toilet humour, but I was disappointed to see that they weren't part of the landscape the way that other features are.