Topic
The other PETITION where you leave your real name in a website and testify about your experience. [Only for those who want to]
EDIT: Sign here: http://www.change.org/petitions/tiny-speck-do-not-close-our-beloved-game-glitch#share
EDIT2: --------------
EDIT 3: This thread became a battle field which was not intended since the beginning. I feel responsible to defend those who kindly participated until now. They did it because they love this game as much as me and others who might have different points of view or opinions. We aren't forcing nobody to sign. Don't sign if you don't want to. Nobody wants you to do something against what you believe or what you feel right to do. But please respect who else might feel in a different way.
We know that the game is closing and that we can't stop it, but the soul will remain and it's all about that.
I hope that one day something like this experience can happen again, somehow...
This is the original text: Glitch community don't quit yet!
I would like to be the first to sign this petition in name of Glitch community. We all have a voice.
We don't want the end of Glitch (we don't even want to hear about such an hypotesis) and we want the sponsors to hear what we have to say.
Whoever is with me, please sign here and say +1 now!
Leandro 1+
Replies
- Thank you PixieyeIsraek!
- Agreeing with Pixieyelsraek.
- Also agreeing with Pixeyelsraek.
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Pixieyelsraek
i15.photobucket.com/albums/... -
9 days ago the idea of this thread would be to do put people together, this community around one cause and this didn't change. It's still about that. If the petition can't do nothing now maybe it can do something in the future.
Or do you already have information about the future? Do do make fortune telling with a crystal ball, or reading cards?
I don't know the future, but I would like to change it.
9 days ago I though people could do something together and do one last performance here saying "aye +1", but then Daisy Blooms had this nice idea of the petition (a REAL petition). That wasn't my idea but I liked it and I supported it, as you can see.
And 9 days ago I was already thinking that this is more than one game. 1 year ago, as well. I started playing around June of 2011 and one month or two later I could realize that.
It indeed stimulated altruism, respect, community sense, all that... And it's a pity that you didn't understand that yet.
So 9 days had passed and I read many ideas in the forums and speaking with people I understood more about what was going on. And my head is not a brick or a stone, my thought about what was going on and what could be done changed obviously, but those thoughts I shared weren't the goal of the petition. I think I have the right, yet, to state them and say what I think and say that I don't agree, just like you did. And my thoughts or wishes weren't, never were, the goal(s) of the petition. Those are written since the beginning, there, in the petitions site. -
You, know, I think it would be FAR more constructive and meaningful to simply write TS a letter. Tell them how much you love Glitch, what it has meant to you, how happy you were to play in the world for however long you were here.
To me, at least, people shouting about petitions smacks of Facebook style "slactivisim". On the other hand, The people who are putting together projects to preserve our memories of the game (pictures, video, audio, crafting) are actually doing something to honor Glitch and what it means to all of us.
This goes for all the petitions that are going around, and the threads demanding that we keep Glitch open ourselves, and the endless arguments on Global that players can keep the game going somehow. Instead, why don't we show our appreciation to TS? There's hundreds of ways I've seen people do it- pick one you like and do it. -
Did you go there? Did you read the statements? :) It's not about "shouting", as if one would be demanding something in an angry way...
I agree that keeping the picture and all that is nice and I completely support that. And if people say that the game will be shut down next 9th of December, and that we (99% for sure) won't stop the closing, I also agree.
But if they tell me that I am losing my time, asking for people to sign, and that "nothing can be done", I disagree.
If you keep your mind open to future possibilities you can see many things can happen. A leads to B but sometimes to C or to D...
The creators of the game won't disappear neither the information of the game (and I was hoping that neither our data). Maybe in few years it could be reborn if they wanted to. Maybe they will need to be financed again. And obviously they will need all kinds of support. More than 190 people already bothered to write their real names in a petition site, to put their statements there, and that should mean something already - well I believe that at least to them and to me it means something. What people state in forums are important for sure, but it's not a clear statement as this one detached from this website that we are now.
Maybe in the future, with new technologies, with new circumstances, maybe in a different way, there's a big range of possibilities of the game to come back, by the hands of the creators or by the hands of others... Who can tell it's impossible? Nobody knows the future. The questions are: Who wants to play it? Do we want it to come back?
At the same time I believe that whatever we can do to replicate this game-ideia can be nice. More games like this one for sure, or I believe so, can promote better people and a better world. To sign and state about the significance of this experience we had is important. -
The apathetic, even hostile, response to the idea of this petition has made me realise the game will not be saved.
According to this petition, however passionate the supporters of this game may be, there are simply not enough of them to make the game profitable.
*Moves to acceptance stage of grief* -
+1 to Pixieyelsraek. To echo the sentiments already expressed, it should be obvious that anyone with an active account wants Glitch to continue.
To an outsider looking in, a "petition" with only 190 signatures would demonstrate something with very little support.
I think this idea can actually serve to spread the opposite message of what you intend. -
I looked at the petition and thought it was incredibly unsympathetic and selfish. Stoot is shuttering a beloved personal project. He is laying off talented and hardworking colleagues at the holidays. Do you think he made that decision SO LIGHTLY that an expression of player interest will change it? Read his post here and consider whether it simply had not occurred to him that people who are already playing the game might want to keep playing the game.
And the petition doesn't even say "please". Someone's glitch mama could have taught them better manners.
ETA: I had not fully grasped that the petition was not the project of the OP, nor that it was posted in the first flush of grief at the game's closing. My frustration with the OP, his continuing insistence that the game can somehow be salvaged by player entreaties, and his unpleasant attitude to players who don't sign, led me to say something unkind. It is above all his attitude through this thread that I find selfish, and I wish I'd replied more directly to him. -
I never would have learned about Glitch if it weren't closing, so I am lukewarm about the matter. For shame, glitches! Your word of mouth techniques were lacking. Perhaps if more people knew about this game, it wouldn't be as expensive. The potential mandatory monthly subscription cost would be lower if there were more players.
Posted 11 years ago by OrangeAipom | Permalink
- Orange, we were in beta and not able to invite. What did you expect us to do?
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In beta for how many years?
Posted 11 years ago by OrangeAipom | Permalink
- We were in beta, then went live, then went back in to beta because they redid the game.....a lot. We never came out of second beta. Technology and all the jazz. And, i dont want to come off as rude, but you come in here, guns all cocked and ready to start shooting us because we "failed" to use word of mouth, its quite un-glitchy of an attitude. Learn the history and backstory before shooting off your guns.
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@oscarette, maybe it should have the word "please" since the beginning. I realized now that many people in this community people look a lot into these small details, and find 10000 other reasons to complain and minor things to get angry with. So I guess you're right.
Let me also tell you (you and others) that you're judging everyone that participated in the petition basing yourself on the assumptions of selfishness, as if no one here would care about how hard it is for the people in the company to shut the project down. And it's completely the opposite: it's because we care about them and appreciated and loved what they did. At least I speak on my behalf.
It's not selfish and we all do care about what they feel, etc. Do people here, the complainers, need to have a drawing about that? Seems to me that you have problems with words, or interpreting intentions.
Third and last thing: I don't agree with Stewart Butterfield in one thing, the "failure".
Glitch was never a failure, maybe it was one economic one, but at least a social failure, it wasn't. This project it's something they all should feel proud of.
Or, at least, I wanted to believe that it wasn't a social "failure" and that's why I came here asking for people to sign a petition.
Was Glitch a failure? -
+1 Innie
Orange - the game has been around for about 3 years. The beta/rebeta was over 2/3 of that time. During open, we DID put the word out as much as possible. You have no idea how cult like we all seemed, LOL. However when we went into rebeta, it closed. At first we weren't allowed to even invite our friends, then evcen when we could we were only allowed a small number of invites, and that didn't recycle unless those invited actually joined. OUR hands were tied. This is not the fault of the Users. Sure, some of us {like myself} couldn't pay for the subscription and used the free plan - But the main issue isn't even the money, simply put Stoot has stated that the FLASH aspect becoming obsolete is a HUGE part of why Glitch has to close. The money sure is a part of it, the user base, etc.... but it isn't the whole picture. People need to re-read the many Stoot responses on all this.
Kul Koba - Stoot never said it was a social failure. This wasn't just a project, nor was it as someone in Global said a "social experiment", this was a BUSINESS, and one that failed for a chunk of reasons. Some of your accusations towards those of us who disagree with you show just how much you don't get what we have been saying. I'm not going to speak for ANYONE else, but I'm not judging anyone as being selfish, I'm not judging anyone.
You don't know that TS is reading your petition {they could be, I don't know}. They *are* reading the forums. They have said {on twitter if nowhere else} how much the outpouring that I already mentioned means to them. As I have already stated, HERE, emails, twitter - those are the places that matter to show your love and care to TS. Believe me TS ***KNOWS*** the Users want Glitch to stick around, or come back later if it can. 190 signatures is nothing compared to the amount of Users in global & the forums sharing thier love for the game {just look at how many users are in the SANDBOX group alone}.
I have NO idea why you put in 99% sure Glitch is closing, unless you are still in denial, and again encouraging a confusing idea that any of this can stop the inevitable. GLITCH. IS. CLOSING. No, I can't see the future, what I can see is what Stoot has said. What I can see is that Staff are taking new jobs. What I can see is *this* is over.
It indeed stimulated altruism, respect, community sense, all that... And it's a pity that you didn't understand that yet.
I seriously doubt a SINGLE person here doesn't understand that. I don't know where you are pulling those types of ideas from. None of us are being trolls, or hostile, or rude. We are having a discussion, which community does, we don't *have* to agree. THIS COMMUNITY! This community is a HUGE part of why the Users love glitch. Hell, no, wait, that's an understatement. WE ARE GLITCH! -
One thing that is perhaps being overlooked: Glitch has 2 very large and insoluble problems. 1) there are not enough players. 2) Flash. The basic underpinning of all the programming is near death. Any system using Flash cannot exist for very much longer AND the current system using Flash cannot reasonably handle a influx of new players. We saw that during the feats (and also when TS had to resort to big red warnings to re-start the browser after a hour of playing. Looking back, one can see in hindsight that that was a big fat warning bell)..
Solving one problem would make the other problem impossible to conquer. If many more players joined (thus solving problem #1), problem #2 would become so obnoxious that most people would get fed up and leave. Vicious circle.
Glitch cannot continue and NOT because TS didn't put every possible effort into continuing it. They did. There is no other solution other than the one they have chosen. I think you should respect them enough to not be second-guessing them for it. -
The main issue is the money due to the costs of the use of certain technology that very soon (much probably) will be obsolete.
www.glitch.com/forum/genera... - +1 Innie. It seems very fashionable of late for the uninformed to blame the players of the game.
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Odd, Kul Koba, your link there {looking at the posts from TS and not assumption posts from users, is all about how flash is failing, not the money. It's also from over a year ago.
ETA: i don't have the time at the moment, does anyone know where Stoot said to even change the game to a new format would require over a year of no glitch at all just to do that, plus then MORE beta time, and no player income in the meantime? - @ pixieyelsraek: here.
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Flowery Pott has it dead-on. Getting enough players to support the game would have broken the Flash platform. I suspect the conversion rate from playing free to subscribing was pretty low. I think a massive influx of players would have diluted the tight-knit community we have here as well. I don't know how well the sweet Glitch community we knew and loved would have held together.
Kul Koba, I read the whole thread. No matter how you try to rephrase it, a petition is a request for change, not a polite gesture or a thank-you note. The actual petition on Change.org doesn't include any sort of thanks or compassion for all the folks who are losing jobs, just a demand to keep Glitch going. I'd be embarrassed to have my real name associated with it. -
@Pixieyelsraek, I am a bit tired to explain words and sentences. 99% sure: yes, I am, because it's said everywhere that its going to close, right? The rest, the 1% you can fill with whatever hypotesis else imagined, God intervention included. It was only a manner of speech as your capital letters are, which I don't immediately understand as shouting, but as bolding your ideas. ;)
So far I have been defending myself, the people that signed the petition and the petition itself and if there are accusations I see them for those who are condemning it.
This is for you all: It's simple - we all would like to play more. Some want to put their names on a petition saying that others don't. If you want don't put your names or if you don't write any testimony, then don't, but leave others to do that. -
"According to this petition, however passionate the supporters of this game may be, there are simply not enough of them to make the game profitable."
Frankly, I find this offensive. I'm not signing the petition because it will accomplish absolutely nothing, because it does not even attempt to acknowledge the problems that the developers have explained, and because I, like others, think it is unfair, considering the hard and heartbreaking choice they had to make, to just act as if they decided to close the game on a whim and could just reopen it they really wanted. So, that means that I'm not a "supporter" of the game? Good to know.
The reactions of the game community, of the people who supported it and continue to support it, are all over this forum. They take various forms, be it discussion of the causes of the shutdown, attempts to figure out what could have been done, helpless grief, or incredibly touching tributes. The developers have seen them and reacted to quite a few.
Saying that those of us who prefer these reactions to signing a petition are "complainers", "have problems with words", that we did not understand the values of Glitch, and inferring that our unwillingness to sign proves that Glitch was a "social failure" - meaning, I guess, that we are the ones who are to blame for the game closing - also is quite offensive. And I honestly doubt that it will get the petition signatures, as people tend not to want to be blackmailed into something like this. -
Flowery Pott and Lucille Ball have it right. You don't need a petition to show gratitude and I really can't approve of the way you're saying that people who disagree are selfish especially when it'd be selfish to expect more from Tiny Speck after they've done the very best to show their appreciation for us even though the game didn't work out as planned.
It's not only that, your petition ignores all of the good points raised that Stoot has already thought it over, the game wasn't sustainable regardless of whether more players joined and that the staff would also have loved to continue to work on this game. You're basically making a demand without caring for the people behind the game and that is very un-Glitchy- nay, very unkind of you. - I do have a crystal ball. It's called reading TS's posts.
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@Not a Princess, the way you said it seems that you are someone very sensitive who "has the right" to feel offended. You indeed have. My opinion is that you should feel less because nobody wanted that, to offend you, I think.
What I find interesting is that you didn't like other people's words, but then you use words as "people being blackmailed into something like this". Sure, that's not offensive... at all. - I'm not saying that anyone wanted to offend me personally, so there is no need to address my "sensitivity", thank you very much (ETA: You might note that I reacted to statements made in the comments here without saying anyone was a bad person/stupid/couldn't read for making them, while you went straight on to make assumptions about my character - End of ETA). But the statements I cite are directed at quite a big group of people, and if you can't see how it is offensive to say that people who disagree with you "have problems with words", for example, then I guess any attempts at explaining it will probably be pointless. And if statements that say that only people who sign the petition truly support the game aren't blackmail, then I really don't know.
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@ Sarabanda No, it doesn't ignore all what they said. We appreciate much what they did and it's written on the testimonies in the petition site. Please check the petition site and read my comments before.
@Gwyn I was speaking about the future after December 9th, what will happen. As we couldn't predict this day of December 9th 2012 we can't predict everything what will happen in December 9th 2013.
@Lucille Ball Maybe I should put here more details and ask Daisy Blooms if she can add information in the petitions website. -
Let me put this in a blunt way: You are shaming the people that don't sign, you're not understanding why we won't sign (It has nothing to do with passion and everything to do with how it is not going to work and I do not WANT my name listed next to a selfish request to keep the game open when they can't and they'll make huge losses if they actually did), you're talking down to the people that don't sign, you're making assumptions and you're plainly mocking a large part of the community at this point and acting as if we're whiny babies who scream "No!" when that's far from the truth.
Just stop it.
Edit: Of course people are going to write nice comments because we are a nice community. That does not change the fact that the petition is still selfish. And cut it with the insinuations that people don't read. -
@ Not a Princess I never thought or said (at least intended to be understood that way, and if I did then I am sorry), that if you don't sign is because you don't want to support the game. I think and I believe that people opposing the petition deeply like glitch and wanted it to continue. And that's why, also, they are in this discussion. Because they love the game. We might not to think all the same way, but we all do.
I believe though that if we all would do this, it could be a great thing to support the game. I believe that and that's why I am here defending the idea. Maybe not effective right now, but something for the future. For me, personally has always been more about keeping this game idea open. And one idea doesn't need flash or money, it needs us, the community. -
But we are supporting the game and your expectations of TS is completely unrealistic. You can't say something like how 'an idea doesn't need Flash or money' because the lovely community that was formed only came to be because of Flash and money, no matter how much you want to disagree.
Were it not for Glitch the game, there wouldn't be Glitch the community. Please try to understand the points of view presented here without judgement. -
If a game or an idea could survive on "the community" then Glitch would never end. Fact is, and a sad fact it is indeed, it can't.
On the other hand, The Glitch "idea" will survive through the community in another way, not through a petition, but by using the tools created for us by the fantastic Tiny Speck staff which allows us to save the personal memories we have of the game. In that sense the idea of Glitch will live forever, but in our private memories and saved files. I will never forget Glitch and I am using the time I have left before the game ends to record images of all the things that made Glitch, for me, unforgetable. -
Sarabanda, I understand yours. Please try to understand mine too. I don't think it's something unrealistic.
All depends what will happen, and mainly about about technology and we don't know that.
For exemple nobody knows what Adobe plans to do with Flash or if something else will be invented meanwhile and what.
It is true that it might never happen but look at the possibilities:
1. Maybe in 10 years it's possible for TS to open this game again (different technology, more money, etc).
2. Maybe in 10 years it's possible to put glitch working as open-source (technology again).
3. Games like this one can be created meanwhile and we can all migrate there. Maybe one with the name "Glotch"... :P
These are all hypotesis, but they might happen. And if more people want it to happen they might have more chances to happen. When one idea is good it will be replicated sooner or later and/or improved.
In order for certain kinds of games to be produced companies and game creators need players wanting to play them.
- Pixieyelsraek, I participated on the discussion more than one year ago, this was a subject already mentioned. It doesn't invalidates what I said: it's a problem about money enough to deal with obsolete technologies. For example you have the analog and digital photography and while one was replacing the other it didn't stop photographers to use the analog. Some prefer the analog. But the fact that nobody among them can denny is that analog photography is much more expensive. Some leave it for practical reasons. The situation here is: knowing that the idea is worthy and if the company would have rivers of money, like one microsoft, they would keep the project going with the old technology until they would find some improvements on that old technology or some new way to "convert" it.
TS also knew what was going on with Flash, one year ago, and kept going, they risked, because the idea was worthy. -
Oh my god, I can't believe this post has turned into people fighting. I am the one that added the petiition to change.org. I did it in the early days of my serious sadness, literally through my tears, I added it one night. I apologize for not wording as I would today but it was coming from a very sad place. At the time, I had not read Stoot's further explanations about what was going on behind the scenes. You guys are being awfully judgmental of someone's grief. Of course I love TS and appreciate everything they and Stoot did.
Can we all pls stop the arguing. If you don't like the petition or the idea of it, ignore it and go about your day.
edited -
Wow!
I had no idea I was blackmailing anyone by making the simple, factual, observation that any outsider viewing this petition would conclude the game doesn't have many supporters.
It seems I am not entitled to my opinion. It seems my observation was interpreted as an attack on others.
Good to know. - LOUD NOISES!!!
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@Reni's Mum: I don't think so. What you said is true, they wouldn't know the reasons why other people didn't sign it since they wouldn't bother to visit the forums.
@Daisy Blooms: Hard to do that when the topic starter implied things about other people in a time when we should be united and not derisive. I in fact lurked here a good while before replying because this is preposterous in a way that I don't like. -
+1
tiny speck, WE <3 YOU :D -
Reni's Mom has a good point; if you believe that a petition like this has a chance to change anything, then one with only 190 signatures will probably have the opposite effect than you intend. (If you were interesting in starting a game, would you re-start one that had only a few hundred supporters when a successful game requires thousands of players?)
Most of us feel a public petition is the wrong vehicle for expressing anything (whether the original intent or the later justifications). The reasons have been clearly stated, so I'll not do it again. Let's hope that people don't mistake a poorly thought out and lightly supported petition for the true affection people have for Glitch. -
Ok, so here's again: Just don't sign if you don't want to and leave others to do what they want. Can it be?
I think it's time to stop this topic about what is good or what is bad since you agreed with this.
If you don't like the petition just ignore it and please respect others decisions.
Thank you! -
Hun, she wasn't generalizing or making assumptions......what she said is in fact true.....an outsider who sees the petition is unlikely to make the effort of finding the game website, locating the forums and then searching for the topic regarding the petition. An outsider with no connection to the game just wouldn't, ok so please calm down.
We all understand your desire to "save" Glitch, believe me we have all felt the desire and need to DO something, anything, to save something we love.
But your tone in all your responses has been defensive (understandable) but also bordering on rude which is probably why people have reacted to this thread in such a way that you may feel they are attacking you. They aren't, a defensive angry tone is bound to get similar responses.
I hate the fact that I am bumping this topic because I feel it should be put to rest now.
@Daisy Blooms- Yeah, i understand why the petition began and, like you, when I first saw the announcement of closure I was angry and devastated and I sat sobbing on my couch like a baby lol. It's not the petition itself that has got people wound up....its the responses within this thread itself. -
Talia True, thanks because I understood badly what she said. I understood they - us, the ones who decide to sign. Thank you.
I don't desire to save something that is already said it can't be saved and that's what some yet didn't understand. It's about the concept of game and the future of the community. I gave, in a comment back, some hypotesis... Technology changes everyday, in one year, two years, three... Many possibilities around the concept, the technology, the community and the company.
I thought people would stand for those who gave their real names (our real names) for this community to prevail and instead I had seen a harshly condemnation, like some kind of medieval witch hunt - sincerely. I don't like people being unfair with others and I defend whoever I have to defend if I think/see they are suffering injustice or even sometimes malice from others.
So whoever believes the action and wants to sign it, and leave there one testimony, please do it, and who doesn't just don't... and keep doing your things.
This way is good for everyone. -
You guys know there's only a couple of weeks left, right? Might be more useful to play while you can, rather than fighting in the forums.
No judgment, just an observation. -
I think you've misunderstood me.... I haven't and won't be signing the petition, for the reasons already mentioned and more. I was merely empathising with the person who chose to begin the petition because I too felt an unusually strong emotion upon hearing of the game's closure and could see why she did what she did.
I also don't believe that it is better or more supportive if a person gives their "real name" to their opinions. The opinions and responses left in this forum in many other threads is just as supportive and possibly an even stronger response to the closure than simply putting a name on a list of names.
I was also saying that while I understand your desperation in supporting anything that may "save" the game, your tone in your responses has been harsh and at times blunt and rude. This is why you may have felt you were being attacked, because an aggressive tone often brings forth an aggressive reply.
I'm not trying to be nasty, nor am I taking either side in the debate of "to sign or not to sign", I am simply looking at this thread from an unbiased point of view and trying to offer a realistic and scientific explanation as to why the discussion has become heated. Nothing more. - and @ Djabriil------- totally totally totally agree. I'm spending as much time as i can capturing images of all my favourite people and locations so I have a wonderful collection of memories that i can treasure forever, long after the game is gone.
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There is already a petition here in the General Forum. Up at the top. It's "The Official Shutdown Thread". Currently at 1,014 entries. Everyone of those entries made by players AND TS staff who want the game to never end.
I believe the intentions of the OP here were genuinely sincere but this is a bird that won't fly. -
Talia, humm?
No, I think you misunderstood me.. I didn't ask you to sign on my last comment.
Was it because i said "thank you"? I said thank you for other thing, because you explained me (clarified) that she was speaking about people outside of Glitch.
And let's speak about science: Beliefs are not scientific. You may believe what you believe but that doesn't make my beliefs less or more valid than yours. They are beliefs.
And you still didn't understand what I said: when I mentioned it I didn't mentioned it because of beliefs of efficacy, but simply because people have been giving their private data, their real names, "giving their faces" as we say here, simply because they care (the emotional value). Is that meaningless? It is not for me and I thank them for their kindness.
I have been too harsh, and the tone has been rude sometimes... thanks! I wanted to be harsh and rude and all that. Since the beginning people have been kind and i have been harsh and bitter and people who signed too, have been always very bitter, and evil and hate TS very much and that's why they have been fairly accused of all that.
"I was also saying that while I understand your desperation in supporting anything that may "save" the game, your tone in your responses has been harsh and at times blunt and rude."
So I should assume that when someone accuse you badly you are a person that accepts that quietly and peacefully and don't complain and don't even reply? So all those accusations made before to the people that signed the petition have been brand, and respectful and we all should accept them peacefully, right?... Yeah right... (and I bet this is probably an example of those my agressive replies you were talking about, right?). Do you know that allergy...that one...? :)
Long topic... Patricia is right we should stop, or else we will overpass those 1,014 replies. :)
Probably we all agree with Djabriil, which is a satisfactory idea for everyone, so - let's play instead.
EDIT: seriously, stop and let's play instead.
